Ask HN: What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles?

#151

Post by als0 » Mon, Apr 05, 2021, 8:02 PM UTC

fiftyfifty wrote: post #139

neogodless wrote: post #29

56 million cars sold last year. How many do you think were bought because they do not create emissions, or because of any serious consideration of the engineering behind them? People buy a Toyota Corolla or Prius because it's below the median price, reliable and efficient. They will buy it and then never think about it again because it'll "just work." People buy a Ford F150 because they either have some real use for…

I think several of your categories nailed what the vast majority of car owners are looking for: an transportation appliance. This is where I think EVs will eventually dominate the market, the only thing you will have to worry about is plugging it in. The simplicity of the electric drive train will make them even more reliable (and efficient) than the best gas vehicles today. No more oil changes. No more random fluid…

> No more mornings where you are late for work because your car wouldn't start

That sounds very optimistic. Don't forget that these new cars are increasingly powered by software!

Re: Ask HN: What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles?

#152

Post by chefkoch » Mon, Apr 05, 2021, 8:05 PM UTC

maratc wrote: post #141

The futurologists think that most people would just stop buying cars altogether. Once there is a self-driving (electric) car that you can order from your phone and that will — cheaply! — take you from point A to point B, the need in owning a car will (mostly) disappear. The people would stop being car buyers. Instead, robo-taxi companies will buy most of the cars. For these, there would be no need in brands or market…

I think this is only true for people living in densly populated areas. If you live somewhere where it takes the car more than x minutes to pick you up, people still have to own their own car.

Re: Ask HN: What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles?

#153

Post by chefkoch » Mon, Apr 05, 2021, 8:15 PM UTC

petercooper wrote: post #63

twobitshifter wrote: post #39

If someone can get full self driving and patents it, they’ll have the market. Software is where we are seeing most innovation right now. Self parking, 3D surround cameras, accident avoidance, auto lane change, etc. I think you’re correct that there will be less appeal from a technical performance perspective to buy an individual brand. All EVs have fast enough acceleration (some dangerously so.) So competition there…

All EVs have fast enough acceleration (some dangerously so.) So competition there is not going to continue. I'm less sure about that. I think it will remain a distinctive feature that people will actively choose for or against, at least. The new Mini EV from BMW (and which is replacing the i3 as BMW's 'flagship' EV) has only 0-60 in 7s which is not very interesting at all. But they're not aiming at the performance cr…

Most people won't fork over an extra 10k for a 2s faster 0 - 60 i guess.

Re: Ask HN: What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles?

#154

Post by npongratz » Mon, Apr 05, 2021, 8:16 PM UTC

andrepd wrote: post #150

asdff wrote: post #103

Arguably were are already there. Every car on the market gets to the speed limit quick enough and gets about the same MPG, so therefore cars are already in this nike shoe to balenciaga state, since the actual added performance functionality you get in the porsche today is useless, dangerous, and illegal except on private tracks (and maybe 1% of owners will bring their cars to one of these, far more will drive their c…

> since the actual added performance functionality you get in the porsche today is useless, dangerous, and illegal except on private tracks (and maybe 1% of owners will bring their cars to one of these, far more will drive their cars dangerously on public roads). OT but I don't get why 400bhp cars with "race" suspensions are even road-legal. Why are cars not fitted with a speed limiter? Road accidents are a leading c…

I think if one were to dig into the statistics of road fatalities, they would probably find 400 HP race-suspended muscle cars are not a major mass murdering menace.

Re: Ask HN: What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles?

#155

Post by maratc » Mon, Apr 05, 2021, 8:17 PM UTC

chefkoch wrote: post #152

maratc wrote: post #141

The futurologists think that most people would just stop buying cars altogether. Once there is a self-driving (electric) car that you can order from your phone and that will — cheaply! — take you from point A to point B, the need in owning a car will (mostly) disappear. The people would stop being car buyers. Instead, robo-taxi companies will buy most of the cars. For these, there would be no need in brands or market…

I think this is only true for people living in densly populated areas. If you live somewhere where it takes the car more than x minutes to pick you up, people still have to own their own car.

That's where the majority of today's cars could end up :)

Re: Ask HN: What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles?

#156

Post by ThalesX » Mon, Apr 05, 2021, 8:19 PM UTC

maratc wrote: post #141

The futurologists think that most people would just stop buying cars altogether. Once there is a self-driving (electric) car that you can order from your phone and that will — cheaply! — take you from point A to point B, the need in owning a car will (mostly) disappear. The people would stop being car buyers. Instead, robo-taxi companies will buy most of the cars. For these, there would be no need in brands or market…

I own a car, but I live my life as if I didn't to be honest, so I think the futurologists' claims might be actually here.

When I need a car, I rent it by the minute, $.17 for one minute, minimum fee of around $2. It's electric, it's usually filled (or if I do the filling for free I get a lot of points that I can use to get the car for a day), they're scattered all around the city and have parking paid with the municipality; they're insured and you just hop on and hop off where you need.

For when I need to make a road trip or something, I just rent out a larger truck from a rental company, and for how often I make them (a couple of times per year), it's really not such a big bang for my buck. I can get a small car for like $5 / day, or a larger one starting at $10.

So... I really don't see the benefit of owning my car at this point, it takes up real estate space, mental space, and it's outdated compared to what I usually drive.

Re: Ask HN: What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles?

#157

Post by gt565k » Mon, Apr 05, 2021, 8:20 PM UTC

if we can hit 500-600mi range per charge for a sub $45k vehicle, I'm sold

basically being able to make a 6-7 hour drive without stopping would be great for beach trips without having to worry about finding a charger halfway through your trip.

charge before you go, charge after you get to your destination would be ideal

Re: Ask HN: What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles?

#158

Post by bluGill » Mon, Apr 05, 2021, 8:30 PM UTC

dreamcompiler wrote: post #113

bluGill wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That depends on if I can recharge. I have driving ICE cars with 150 mile ranges, and ICE cars with 600 miles ranges - either way I just filled the tank when the gauge got down to about 1/4. This works because fast refueling exists everywhere I can think of. So long as EV chargers are rare (and sometimes broken) I need a lot of extra range to ensure I can refuel before running dry. Of course with both of the ICE cars…

Superchargers are rarer than gas stations but plentiful enough (in the US) for long trips if you mostly stick to interstates. Non-Tesla networks are also rapidly increasing in number. Also you cannot refuel your ICE car at home or at your hotel while you sleep. This is a huge benefit to EVs that makes ICE range comparisons hard to quantify in simplistic terms.

The problem is I don't always stick to interstates. Even when I am on an interstate, there is a big difference between being able to stop every 20 miles and every 200 miles. The first means I sometimes refuel because we are at half a tank and someone needs a bathroom, while the later forces me to stop like it or not when I get to a charger.

Refueling at home is nice for when I'm home - 95% of the time. That last 5% is the topic here. Most hotels don't have a charger, and even those that do you can't be sure you can park in that spot.

Re: Ask HN: What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles?

#159

Post by Sohcahtoa82 » Mon, Apr 05, 2021, 8:31 PM UTC

lowbloodsugar wrote: post #133

at_a_remove wrote: post #64

I think that you can take all of the differentiators that exist for ICE vehicles (price, reliability, status ...) and then add in some new factors: 1) Range anxiety 2) Recharge concerns (plays into range anxiety) 3) Novel technology fears (will my trusted mechanic of twenty years be able to handle this or am I stuck with the dealership?) 4) "Handling" -- will this drive like my old ICE car? Apparently a major irritat…

Re: #3 - handle what? Changing the oil? Replacing the clutch. Dealing with the camshaft gears shredding and destroying engine? Fixing any part of the gear box? Of the automatic gearbox? My belt tensioner isn't. The clutch on my ac is broken. My powersteering hydraulic line came loose and sprayed all over the road. My power steering pump needs replacing (a month after the fluid got dumped). Piston ring blown. Cylinder…

> So looking forward not to have to take the car to any kind of mechanic at all except for brakes and wiper fluid.

You won't even need to go to a mechanic for brakes.

Regen breaking means your brake pads are rarely actually used and will probably last a million miles.

AFAIK, the only maintenance item you'll likely be taking an EV to is tires.

Re: Ask HN: What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles?

#160

Post by Ekaros » Mon, Apr 05, 2021, 8:45 PM UTC

Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #159

lowbloodsugar wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re: #3 - handle what? Changing the oil? Replacing the clutch. Dealing with the camshaft gears shredding and destroying engine? Fixing any part of the gear box? Of the automatic gearbox? My belt tensioner isn't. The clutch on my ac is broken. My powersteering hydraulic line came loose and sprayed all over the road. My power steering pump needs replacing (a month after the fluid got dumped). Piston ring blown. Cylinder…

> So looking forward not to have to take the car to any kind of mechanic at all except for brakes and wiper fluid. You won't even need to go to a mechanic for brakes. Regen breaking means your brake pads are rarely actually used and will probably last a million miles. AFAIK, the only maintenance item you'll likely be taking an EV to is tires.

I would actually be worried about brakes not getting used instead of them getting used and worn out. Having replaced my KIA's breaks due to dragging. After all they are hydraulic system with moving parts that can get stuck if not used enough.