Ask HN: Is there still a place for native desktop apps? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Is there still a place for native desktop apps?

#151

Post by ssimono » Sun, May 17, 2020, 7:52 PM UTC

Memosyne wrote: post #52

rohan1024 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he is saying that because with webapps you have - control over your software and updates - no one can pirate your software/service

> no one can pirate your software/service Huh? Given how most web applications these days are using client-side rendering there's nothing stopping someone from just downloading all of the frontend assets. You can also connect to a server from your desktop application so I don't understand how desktop makes it easier to pirate anything.

Web applications have lots of essential parts on the server-side even if they do client-side rendering. And each paying user is logged in when using it, so the company can accept/deny requests depending on the user.

Proprietary desktop applications are usually downloaded after a payment, and then the full software is available locally. By hacking the security parts of it one can then have a totally free version and distribute it. That's why it is easier to pirate.

Re: Ask HN: Is there still a place for native desktop apps?

#152

Post by monocasa » Sun, May 17, 2020, 7:52 PM UTC

kick wrote: post #145

monocasa wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh. XUL isn't really a web technology the same way as Electron.

It's not XUL anymore, actually, as far as I know. That's why it ripped out support for XUL addons.

Firefox has been ripping out xul, but Thunderbird still appears to support it.

Re: Ask HN: Is there still a place for native desktop apps?

#153

Post by oscar_franco13 » Sun, May 17, 2020, 7:53 PM UTC

Yes! at some point I got tired of web stuff, I try to use small native apps for the day to day stuff, cramming everything into the browser completely kills the benefits of the desktop environment.

I created a small macOS native app, it is a menu bar app for monitoring CI pipelines https://tempomat.dev, something like this is not possible on the web because everything is running on the same browser but native features are so much better

Re: Ask HN: Is there still a place for native desktop apps?

#154

Post by enos_feedler » Sun, May 17, 2020, 7:53 PM UTC

OkGoDoIt wrote: post #137

fbelzile wrote: post #124

I make a living developing software only available on Windows and macOS. That said, if I didn't need to interact so much with the operating system, I'd be making a web app. It all depends on what you want to make though. Video editing software? Native app. CRUD app? Web app. You may also want to consider pricing implications of both. Desktop software can usually be sold for a higher up front cost, but it's tough sell…

I understand the concept of making a native app to include using the native UI platforms. What you described is hardly more native than electron, which is basically a web app at heart. Or maybe there needs to be a consensus on terms. Do people consider electron apps to be native? I would put them in some weird middle ground, but definitely closer to web technologies than native development.

With Electron, it feels more like starting from web and making it behave like a native app, from the standpoint of operating system app handling (task bar, notification). It can also fill a gap left by web for exposing a filesystem and other things that are native to some abstract computer.

Using WKWebView for UI is different in that you are starting from a native app and using web technologies to leverage code sharing and programming model of the user interface (js, css, html).

I think for this view to make sense you have to see web apps and native apps as fundamentally different things, which I believe they are.

Re: Ask HN: Is there still a place for native desktop apps?

#155

Post by developerdylan » Sun, May 17, 2020, 7:53 PM UTC

ttoinou wrote: post #48

ilrwbwrkhv wrote: post #27

Every single app that I use, I try and make sure it is native. I shun electron apps at all cost. It's because people who put in effort to use the native APIs put in a lot more effort in the app in general based on my anecdotal evidence. It is also more performant and smaller in size, things that I cherish. It also pays homage to limits and striving to come up with new ways of overcoming them, which hackers would have…

1 gig for Slack ? I count And currently taking < 300 MB RAM

185MB on mac.

Re: Ask HN: Is there still a place for native desktop apps?

#156

Post by madhadron » Sun, May 17, 2020, 7:54 PM UTC

ZoomZoomZoom wrote: post #144

I'm going to be slammed for using these two words, but for any real work you need to have as few layers of indirection between the user and the machine as possible, and this includes the UX, in the sense that it is tailored to the fastest and most comfortable data entry and process monitoring. I don't see any `web first` or Electron solution replacing Reaper or Blender in a foreseeable future. One exception I'm intri…

VSCode uses a C++ backend to get that performance.

Re: Ask HN: Is there still a place for native desktop apps?

#157

Post by squarefoot » Sun, May 17, 2020, 7:54 PM UTC

Web last, badly, and only when needed. Having tons of resources at disposal shouldn't be an excuse to add layers of unnecessary stuff where native code always perform better.

Re: Ask HN: Is there still a place for native desktop apps?

#158

Post by elorant » Sun, May 17, 2020, 7:55 PM UTC

For me the simplest example is e-mail. I need an e-mail client on my PC where I can browse all my e-mails even when offline. Nothing that runs inside the browser could match the speed and efficiency of a native app.

Re: Ask HN: Is there still a place for native desktop apps?

#159

Post by squarefoot » Sun, May 17, 2020, 7:55 PM UTC

znpy wrote: post #99

implicit wrote: post #71

If you are going to expect me to run your software in an always-on manner, I would greatly appreciate a native application. I frequently do light computing on a Surface Go. It's a delightful little device and I love it, but it is not powerful enough that I can leave gmail, Slack, and Discord open all the time. I don't have enough RAM to run another web application but I could very easily afford a native app or two.

I have an old ThinkPad X200s that I turn on from time to time. I keep a fedora installed and updated just in case, and since I'm there, i also sync my nextcloud stuff. E-mails using claws-mail are not a problem. It generally runs fast enough until I open firefox and web stuff in general.

Claws Mail on an old Atom is a lot faster than webmail on pretty much anything else. This probably illustrates best the difference between the two approaches.

Re: Ask HN: Is there still a place for native desktop apps?

#160

Post by thewebcount » Sun, May 17, 2020, 7:56 PM UTC

lytedev wrote: post #107

egypturnash wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slack desktop app is almost 1 gig in size. On a whim I just checked how big the copy of Adium still lingering in my Mac is: 60 megs. And Ripcord (a native discord/slack client) is a mere 40.

ooh I'll have to check out ripcord!

I use it daily. It's OK. It's better than having a full electron app/browser running, but it's fairly incomplete. (For example, in Slack I can't find a way to set my status.) I also have to reauthenticate every Monday morning which means launching Slack in a web browser to grab my credentials. It's a pain.