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Ask HN: Invited by Facebook for privacy roundtable. What questions should I ask?

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Re: Ask HN: Invited by Facebook for privacy roundtable. What questions should I ask?

#151

Post by elliekelly »

danShumway wrote: post #71
jasonhansel wrote: post #27

"Why have you argued in court that your users have no 'reasonable expectation of privacy'?"

I'm not sure how to phrase this in a non-combative, constructive way, but I do think it's a really good question. Facebook's PR team and legal team are arguing two completely separate things right now, and I'd like management to explain how they reconcile those views. I'd like to know whether their lawyers are right that users have no expectation of privacy, or whether Zuckerburg is right that privacy is the future o…

No matter how you phrase it I would guess the response would be something along the lines of "cannot comment on matters relating to ongoing litigation." They'll have a clever way to sidestep every issue they haven't explicitly decided in advance to discuss.

Re: Ask HN: Invited by Facebook for privacy roundtable. What questions should I ask?

#152

Post by ryanlol »

klez wrote: post #150
ryanlol wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>First of all, Facebook's inability to keep their moderators' identities private is an issue Agreed, but it’s not an issue because they’re going to get killed by terrorists. I’m objecting to the dishonest framing, not trying to argue that this isn’t an issue. >It seems incredibly arrogant to assume that you know what terrorists will and will not do Your assumptions seem at least as arrogant. >I don't have any experie…

>>I don't have any experience interacting with terrorists >I do Is it something you're at liberty or willing to talk about? Cause I'm intrigued.

I used to know this kid called Junaid, at some point he was relatively normal. He became less and less normal though, and eventually got in trouble with the law over some silly hacks. He fled the UK to Syria and joined ISIS.

In Syria I watched him wave around guns on skype for a couple of years until he was placed at the top of the US kill list and eventually got incinerated.

Re: Ask HN: Invited by Facebook for privacy roundtable. What questions should I ask?

#154

Post by mehrdadn »

rock_hard wrote: post #82
mehrdadn wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I ask you to ask a question that's not about their apps? "I understand many if not all of your employees, and even your interns, are technically capable of accessing at least some data from any user, should they decide to do so against Facebook's will. I also understand the repercussion for this is that they would get fired and potentially sued. However, this is not accepted practice in every company that handle…

I might highlight that there is significant internal technical barriers to access user data! And it would be very, very hard to circumvent the protection mechanisms without getting caught!

> there is significant internal technical barriers to access user data

Is this a new thing or has it always been the case? Because I'm pretty sure I've heard otherwise before. (Unless by "technical barrier" you don't mean the same thing I do.)

Also what do you mean by "very hard without getting caught"? Is it like hacking their database from the outside/open internet? Or is it like "they can, but it'll trip fifty alarms" [but they'd still get the data].

Re: Ask HN: Invited by Facebook for privacy roundtable. What questions should I ask?

#155

Post by ambicapter »

Voxoff wrote: post #129
sasasassy wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But.. they do, though. You can (and people do) make a very targeted ad, then query what users matched with it, and so on until you've sufficient data for your purposes. Plus you can use their public APIs to then match their ad data with the users public information. Facebook knows this, and does not prevent it (by hiding user identifiers for instance) because it's part of their strategy.

Ah now this is sneaky. Is this widespread? Any sources?

Here's a guy targeting his roommate[0]. Previous discussion[1].

[0] https://ghostinfluence.com/the-ultimate-retaliation-pranking...

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8330931

Re: Ask HN: Invited by Facebook for privacy roundtable. What questions should I ask?

#156

Post by espes »

chatmasta wrote: post #85

How can I completely delete a messenger conversation? Is it even possible? If I’m talking to someone on messenger, and we both decide we want to delete the entire conversation, that should be possible with two button clicks. I talk to my significant other on messenger. It gives me nightmares that any employee at Facebook could access that conversation at any time in the next thirty years. It’s going to be really inte…

If you're worried about that Messenger supports end-to-end encryption, just hit the "Go to Secret Conversation" button.

Re: Ask HN: Invited by Facebook for privacy roundtable. What questions should I ask?

#157

Post by mooneater »

When politicians do focus groups to fine tune their speeches, they are not looking to change their platform, their opinion, or their actions.

They are just looking to fine tune for optics. The knowledge they gain from the focus groups just helps them make their message more palatable.

I think of fb that way because they are masters of double speak, weasel words, etc. which is the common behaviour of dishonest politicians.

Imo many of the questions posted here can be easily deflected, handled with conversation techniques that any politician or lawyer would know well.

You want an airtight position, built on a detailed understanding of how they typically deflect in the past. And because you are asking, you are probably the right person to do this.

Harari tried, and despite being brilliant and knowledgeable, he was simply talked over: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Boj9eD0Wug8 Though I suspect he is aiming for a softer approach.

Instead of a pile of disconnected questions, I would suggest developing a clear list of requirements, statements which must be true as a set, in order for a social system to have an acceptable level of privacy.

The list should be iterated upon, and not sent to them prematurely. It should be built on best practices and knowledge of privacy experts from leading institutions. Then it could be broadly endorsed. Then it could not be as easily weaselled-around.

Re: Ask HN: Invited by Facebook for privacy roundtable. What questions should I ask?

#158

Post by qserasera »

School-Cotton wrote: post #76
ratel wrote: post #17

Well, The big one would be nice: Facebook makes her money from harvesting and selling privacy sensitive data, or at least that is the perception shared by nation states, the EU and the wider audience. For any claim Facebook makes about respecting privacy to have at least face validity she need to show how she is going to make money without violating her users privacy. So how is Facebook going to make money if they ne…

It is not true that Facebook makes its money by selling private data, as you can verify by reading its publicly available earnings reports. It makes its money by selling ads, which it uses private data to target — a completely different thing.

In zuckerbergs testimony to congress he references "the data brokers" or third parties involved all of the time.

Re: Ask HN: Invited by Facebook for privacy roundtable. What questions should I ask?

#159

Post by lioeters »

Balgair wrote: post #148
dlivingston wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I think it's beautiful and poetic and adds a sense of life to an inanimate or immaterial thing.

Kinda like the names English gives to groups of animals? Pounce of kittens, parliment of owls, dash of cheetahs, etc

Totally going off-topic, but for others like me who love these poetic phrases, they're called "terms of venery", dating back to the late middle ages' hunting tradition [0].

In the list I see "coalition of cheetahs" and "kindle of kittens". But then again, I don't mind new coinages, these are fun.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_terms_of_vener...

Re: Ask HN: Invited by Facebook for privacy roundtable. What questions should I ask?

#160

Post by lioeters »

bostik wrote: post #28

I have one. 1. How can someone who does not have an account prevent themselves from being tagged and/or identified in uploaded photos? Corollary: why isn't the tagging and identification of a person an opt-in feature only?

I'd like to add to the above question: how does (or can) a person who never had an FB account request deletion of (possibly illegally collected) private data about them, without having to register to the very platform they're not a member of?
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