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Ask HN: How much do developers earn in Europe?

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Re: Ask HN: How much do developers earn in Europe?

#151

Post by varjag »

ionised wrote: post #133
varjag wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of Russian population insists they want nothing to do with Europe or European values - all of them. Does landmass outweighs their opinion for you?

> Most of Russian population insists they want nothing to do with Europe or European values That's irrelevant. We're talking about continents, not political and cultural leanings. > Does landmass outweighs their opinion for you Yes. Continental boundaries are well defined.

It's pointless to talk about comparing salaries in Europe unless there's some market continuity and no significant barriers for workforce. Absolutely not the case with Russia vs Europe, relocation at will without preexisting employment guarantee/sponsorship is not possible.

If you want to stick to the continent though, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia, Belarus, Ukraine and Turkey should be there as well. Belarus and Ukraine in particular have IT/developer markets of same magnitude as Russia.

Re: Ask HN: How much do developers earn in Europe?

#152

Post by jazzyk »

strictnein wrote: post #123
pmlnr wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But generally the developer wage is very low in Europe compared with US(Bay area). Because it usually comes with built-in social security and nationwide health insurance. > AFAIK London have the highest salary among european countries, Nope. Scandinavia.

> Because it usually comes with built-in social security and nationwide health insurance. That doesn't make any sense. There's social security in the US as well and the company is paying for my health insurance. edit: Honestly, why the downvotes? What he was stated was inaccurate and doesn't account for any of the pay differences between the US and Europe.

While taxes in Europe are a bit higher, here is what you get in return:

1. Paid-for healthcare. In the US, I pay close to $2K/month premium for a high-deductible health insurance plan.

2. Subsidized child-care (kindergarten, etc.)

3. Paid-for higher education. That in itself is worth at least $250K/child.

4. Great public transport, which eliminates the need to have more than 1 car (as opposed to 3-4 per household in the US)

5. Decent infrastructure in general (airports, train stations, etc). The US looks like a third-world country.

Also, please keep in mind that while income taxes in the US are a bit lower, they are still significant:

- State tax (usually 5-7%)

- Real-estate taxes. It is not uncommon to pay $1000/month for a very average house in a Boston suburb with good schools.

- "Invisible" taxes, such as excise taxes (cars, oats, etc), alcohol, tobacco, gasoline taxes.

Re: Ask HN: How much do developers earn in Europe?

#153

Post by kuschku »

pc86 wrote: post #142
kuschku wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would suck so much, taking a 30% paycut just in the past 7 months due to this.

It would also suck for the company to have payroll costs increase 30% because one of their remote devs happens to live in another country :)

The company can always re-negotiate, but a 30% paycut might mean you can’t afford your rent or mortgage anymore.

Re: Ask HN: How much do developers earn in Europe?

#154

Post by atmosx »

seszett wrote: post #97
atmosx wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am European and live in Europe but I've always been paid in USD and my salary is negotiated in USD, so I am not sure what parent means or why does currency matter.

Well currency matters if you want to compare all answers. Also, the question specifically says "in €, otherwise specify" ( edit : ok, I see it was added later). It's weird that you are paid in USD in Europe, isn't it? How comes?

First clients were based in the US. So it started from there.

Then I wanted to use a reserve currency[1] and I happen to have strong opinions on currencies, policies (FED, ECB, etc.), so I opted for the safest bet in the long run.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reserve_currency#Global_curren...

Re: Ask HN: How much do developers earn in Europe?

#155

Post by varjag »

baybal2 wrote: post #141
varjag wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not the eastern ones then? There is hardly any discernible ethnic, linguistic or cultural difference between Smolensk and Vladivostok.

>There is hardly any discernible ethnic, linguistic or cultural difference between Smolensk and Vladivostok. I will gladly watch what will happen to you if you say that in Vladivostok suburbs after 1:00 am ^_^ "DISCLAIMER: this is a joke and should not be take seriously"

Wouldn't dare going there 1am even with my mouth shut! :)

Re: Ask HN: How much do developers earn in Europe?

#156

Post by atmosx »

kuschku wrote: post #109
Bahamut wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of US companies tend to pay in USD regardless of locale when hiring remote.

That would suck so much, taking a 30% paycut just in the past 7 months due to this.

According the ECB[1] data on 24 Jan 2017 the exchange rate was 1 EUR = 1.0514 USD and today is 1 EUR = 1.1806 USD so we have:

    (1.1806-1.0748)/1.0748 = 0.0984 => 0.0984 * 100 = 9.84%
How exactly did you manage to lose 30%?

[1] https://www.ecb.europa.eu/stats/policy_and_exchange_rates/eu...

Re: Ask HN: How much do developers earn in Europe?

#157

Post by shanwang »

briandear wrote: post #145
pmlnr wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But generally the developer wage is very low in Europe compared with US(Bay area). Because it usually comes with built-in social security and nationwide health insurance. > AFAIK London have the highest salary among european countries, Nope. Scandinavia.

That logic makes no sense. Since health isn’t an employer cost, salaries in Europe should be higher than the US where the employer incurs health/social costs. However, in France “social charges” are incurred by the employer which means that their cost per employee is about double of their actual salary. That means that French employers are paying social charges which finance those who aren’t employed. In the US: An e…

Health care isn't the reason for the pay gap. The technology sector in Europe is far smaller than those in the US, these days there isn't a single tech company in the EU can rival those tech giants in the US, so the pay gap makes sense.

If you are a banker or a hedge fund PM working in London, your pay will be on par with or even more than your colleagues in New York.

Re: Ask HN: How much do developers earn in Europe?

#158

Post by thriftwy »

kyriakos wrote: post #147
thriftwy wrote: post #6

Interesting definition of Europe that includes UK but doesn't include Serbia not to mention Russia.

How are salaries in Russia? Moscow cause I assume salaries vary greatly with location.

It's $2k-$3k monthly after all taxes for a regular, experienced, non-rockstar developer.

Renting an apartment will set you back $500 per month.

Re: Ask HN: How much do developers earn in Europe?

#159

Post by closeparen »

thinbeige wrote: post #146

Slightly OT but maybe helpful: Don't focus too much on the salary. It's just one tiny part of the whole package. Your dev job pays your rent, food and savings. I assume that most dev jobs do this quite well. Beyond this, the main goal of a job is to increase your future market value, your professional network and to have fun. So. basically it's about how much you are worth in your next job and that you enjoy your tim…

One of the primary reasons people are interested in high salaries is to stop paying rent and become homeowners, and to pay for things like travel, childcare, education, hobbies, etc.

If the only expenses you need to fund are rent and food, what are you doing in an industry this competitive and stressful?

Re: Ask HN: How much do developers earn in Europe?

#160

Post by predskolsko »

Salaries in Serbia can go up to 40-45000 on an annual basis ( taxes can be pretty insignificant). Even though that is not a lot of money, you can live lavish lifestyle of that money, since everything is super cheap ( monthy rent in the city center, 2 room apartment can be found for 300€)
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