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Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

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Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#151

Post by boosting7669 »

Jtsummers wrote: post #97
cybin wrote: post #81

I once worked at a company where my wife was the director of HR. Her boss the president of the company was being "serviced" my a girl in marketing. On day she didn't get a promotion. Then she sued for sexual harresment. The delema put my wife in the hospital. Ruined my marriage. Ruined the ceo's marriage. Ruined the company. Fire them both! Make it very public that you will not tolerate your time being wasted by idio…

The woman (in this Ask HN) did not do anything wrong. Firing her would not be appropriate. > If two employes can't resolve their own issues without involving you then you don't need them. No employee should be subject to harassment. And as a consequence of being harassed they should not be cast aside. Part of being a boss is dealing with these situations. Even if dealing with it means handing it off to a lawyer and H…

A startup typically does not have a lawyer on retainer for HR issues or an HR department for that matter.

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#152

Post by sathackr »

NateDad wrote: post #132
falcolas wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Per the side of the story we know. Do you know something not present in this narrative? The use of 'milf', whether it's derogatory or a compliment, will depend entirely on the context of the larger conversation. Something we don't have. Something which apparently the OP didn't have either.

No one makes up stories like this. They're ALWAYS TRUE. Plus, she probably can show him history on whatsapp (if it supports that, I don't know). MILF is NEVER a compliment to a stranger. It's NEVER a compliment to a friend you just met. It's probably a bad idea even if you're in her bedroom and both stripping down about to have sex. The only time it's sorta safe to call someone a milf is if you were the one who made…

Wait, so if I go to your boss and tell him you called me a MILF, it's true?

It's not completely implausible there is an ulterior motive. And she is well protected if there is. He, on the other hand is not.

None of us know enough about the situation to make a determination in either direction.

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#154

Post by Jtsummers »

boosting7669 wrote: post #151
Jtsummers wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The woman (in this Ask HN) did not do anything wrong. Firing her would not be appropriate. > If two employes can't resolve their own issues without involving you then you don't need them. No employee should be subject to harassment. And as a consequence of being harassed they should not be cast aside. Part of being a boss is dealing with these situations. Even if dealing with it means handing it off to a lawyer and H…

A startup typically does not have a lawyer on retainer for HR issues or an HR department for that matter.

In which case the responsibility falls on the boss. And the first thing they need to do is get a lawyer. Firing someone without good cause ("I fired them both after she accused him of sexually harassing her") is a BAD idea. You're opening yourself up to suits. The situation, the investigation, it all needs to get documented and reviewed by people who know this stuff.

Once a startup goes beyond some friends/colleagues tinkering in their garage or bedrooms, you need to retain proper staff to handle your various employee situations. You need people that know how insurance works. You need people that understand retirement plans. You need people that understand legal obligations re overtime, travel compensation, etc.

With a small company you can conceivably get away with a handful of lawyers on retainer, or one primary in-house counsel who consults with specialists as needed. But you can't get away without having lawyers and HR people in the long run.

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#155

Post by dragonwriter »

boosting7669 wrote: post #143
dragonwriter wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Continuing sexual advances in a work context after being explicitly rebuffed is textbook harassment. This is, perhaps, nearly the most minor incident possible of that basic pattern, but it also pretty clearly fits it.

Lots of women love playing hard to get. They enjoy the chase. Giving up can be perceived as a sign of weakness. In any case, try explaining this situation to a real victim of rape or sexual harassment like my late grandmother who had to endure brutal, forceful rape at a young age as a Jew in Lithuania during WW2 and you'll see what a first world problem this is.

You seem to be conflating sexual harassment, which is a work-related tort, with sexual assault and rape, which are very different characters of things.

Yes, sexual harassment involves many things which fall far short of sexual assault. And, sure, maybe those are first world problems -- if you want to run a successful business in the first world, then you shouldn't be surprised by the need to address first world problems.

And, sure, maybe some women like playing hard to get. The existence of those women does not create license to continue to pursue any woman who has turned you in the workplace. Nor does it remove the legal obligation of the employer to address such unwanted pursuit. What you do when pursuing women who are not your coworkers outside of your work environment, so long as it comports with the less restrictive laws applicable in such environments, is your own business.

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#156

Post by dragonwriter »

ChemicalWarfare wrote: post #142
icebraining wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Private conversation" is anything not related to work, from asking if there's a good restaurant to geeking out on the latest TV show episode; it certainly does not imply any sexual attraction!

Agreed. However once the conversation goes private it's just that - a private non work related conversation. Unless there's anything illegal there like physical threats etc it's a private matter between the parties directly involved.

From every sexual.harassment training I've had given by lawyers working in the field, the idea that a change of venue/forum necessarily removes something like this from work-related is absolutely not the case.

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#157

Post by [deleted] »

boosting7669 wrote: post #143
dragonwriter wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Continuing sexual advances in a work context after being explicitly rebuffed is textbook harassment. This is, perhaps, nearly the most minor incident possible of that basic pattern, but it also pretty clearly fits it.

Lots of women love playing hard to get. They enjoy the chase. Giving up can be perceived as a sign of weakness. In any case, try explaining this situation to a real victim of rape or sexual harassment like my late grandmother who had to endure brutal, forceful rape at a young age as a Jew in Lithuania during WW2 and you'll see what a first world problem this is.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#158

Post by lexhaynes »

boosting7669 wrote: post #148
gruez wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why both? What did the female employee do wrong?

A startup company is a different beast from a well established organization that has time to kill on moderating interpersonal matters that really should be left to the two private individuals to work out on their own. If I have an employee whose skin is so graphene thin that being called a MILF is something worthy of getting management involved, forcing the startup company to engage a lawyer in an expensive legal dil…

> whose skin is so graphene thin that being called a MILF

Are you serious???

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#159

Post by lj3 »

kbart wrote: post #8

I'm not familiar with US customs, so little confused here: is asking your co-worker out is considered a sexual harassment? Or is it the "milf" part?

US custom is to sue first and ask questions later. As a result, successful companies mitigate their exposure to that particular risk.

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#160

Post by icebraining »

basch wrote: post #141
icebraining wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That specific wording ("somewhere more private") might imply acceptance of sexual advances, but nowhere do we see those words in the original post, and I find it hard to believe that one would say "yes" to that if one wasn't interested in being asked out.

if a coworker asks me for my personal phone number or email address, something is up. there is a reason they arent using official company provided communication. asking for my phone number sounds like explicit "move this off the record."

Yes, and that might be because they want you to make a move on them, or it might be - like it very recently happened to me - that they just wanted to ask you for help on a side project. I can definitely tell you that I wasn't leading my coworker on when I sent him my personal email address, and I find it weird that it would be someone's only assumption.
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