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Ask HN: What happens to older developers?

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Re: Ask HN: What happens to older developers?

#141

Post by happycube »

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #31

I'm 48 and ended up moving up, even though I still love to code. The reason wasn't age as much as it was simply a desire to do more complicated stuff. To me the real challenge in technology has always been at the intersection of business and tech, that spot where you have people with a need meeting people with capability. The business side alone is pretty boring, and the tech side at the end of the day just amounts t…

Your example for the second way's it's own counterexample, IMO...

It seems to me that the skills needed to make a good weasel hunting robot (computer vision, mobility, audio processing) would have lots of other applications. Probably could angle to get hired for some of Google's robotic initiatives...

Re: Ask HN: What happens to older developers?

#142

Post by schrodinger »

jdvolz wrote: post #87
MartinCron wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was using a a 15 year old original Microsoft Natural Keyboard until recently, but PS/2 ports are getting more and more rare and PS/2 to USB adapters haven't worked reliably for me. I just bought a Microsoft Natural Keyboard 4000 which is nearly as good, even though the keys feel more "mushy" than I would like.

I use the 4000 and have for the last 8-9 years. They break or otherwise fail to wear or spillage but I've had 4 of them and my hands and wrists don't hurt. If Microsoft ever stops making them I fear for my wrists. Every time I get a new job I bring in my own keyboard or have them get me a 4000 for work and leave mine at home. Best keyboard I've used.

Agreed, great keyboard.

Re: Ask HN: What happens to older developers?

#143

Post by cpwright »

wpietri wrote: post #105
jhspaybar wrote: post #6

I honestly don't understand this, I'm sure there is ageism, but when I'm reading resumes and interviewing I love the more experienced developers! The few times I've seen a solid 10 years experience résumé followed up by a solid phone screen it has been a feeding frenzy. So much so that my company usually can't even move fast enough to get an offer in the ring :( On the other hand, it's really obvious when someone has…

Sure, but how would you feel about 30 years experience? Because at that point, somebody who started just out of college has another 10 years to go before retirement.

I don't think anyone expects someone to stick around at a company for more than 10 years.

Re: Ask HN: What happens to older developers?

#144

Post by jobu »

bane wrote: post #29

It seems that they go a few directions: The most common seems to be to try and generalize, because relearning most of your job skills every few years starts to get annoying the 20th time you've had to do it. It's different when you are younger and everything is new, you just chalk up a major tooling change as just something else to learn. But when the next hot platform or architecture or whatever comes out you get ti…

An impressive example of the senior developer route is David Maynard of Box.com:

"Sometimes I have to leave a company when I get promoted to the stage when I can’t code anymore"

(http://www.fastcolabs.com/3007250/open-company/boxs-65-year-...)

Re: Ask HN: What happens to older developers?

#145

Post by jebblue »

I'm in my 50's and still do what I've done since my 20's then as a hobby and since 30's for pay.

The older people where I work? Yeah not sure, management mostly I think. Some older people still program where I'm at.

My dad taught himself programming as a hobby in his 60's.

Why is this ever even a question anyway, no one asks what happens to people in their 50's who craft furniture, drive trucks, carry on scientific experiments, climb mountains, etc. Do what you like.

Re: Ask HN: What happens to older developers?

#146

Post by Noreaster76 »

moron4hire wrote: post #77

I'm 31 and I worry a lot about this issue. I live in the Washington DC area, which is extremely expensive. I am a freelance consultant, but my hourly rates are not very high. I have one client, and if someone in official IRS capacity were to look at us, they'd make my client make me a wage employee, the relationship we have is clearly not a subcontracting position. But this arrangement makes it possible for me to ear…

I don't suppose you and your wife would consider moving up to NYC, right? The start-up scene here is thriving, and developers on the market are beyond scarce -- more like non-existent, it seems. It's an excellent market in which to find a start-up that is doing something interesting and is starved for developers.

Re: Ask HN: What happens to older developers?

#147

Post by sidthegeek »

bwanab wrote: post #106

I'm 60+. I've been coding my whole career and I'm still coding. Never hit a plateau in pay, but nonetheless, I've found the best way to ratchet up is to change jobs which has been sad, but true - I've left some pretty decent jobs because somebody else was willing to pay more. This has been true in every decade of my career. There's been a constant push towards management that I've always resisted. People I've known w…

Whole-heartedly agree with this post. I will be 58 this year, and have been a developer for the last 20 years, after having been in academia for the first part of my career. As you say, the key is to never stop learning.

Re: Ask HN: What happens to older developers?

#148

Post by djKianoosh »

chadcf wrote: post #129
djKianoosh wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've gone the 'third' path as described here over a year ago, and in my late 30s. I can't recommend it enough to you since you said "but getting into the politics of management is unappealing". You're contradicting yourself when you say on one hand you're used to having jobs thrown at you and then saying it's clearly a lot riskier. From my point of view there's way too many management/analyst types trying to get thos…

I don't think this life is for everyone though. One thing people often don't consider when going freelance is that your job shifts. Instead of just being a developer, you are now a developer, marketer, business owner, accountant, project manager, office manager and more. Some people don't mind that, or even enjoy it. For others, having to deal with all the tasks that go along with running a business, in addition to b…

that also really depends on what kind of gigs you get.

for example here in the DC area there are lots of independent contractors that have steady multi-year contracts. as long as you're not total dead weight you do the hourly thing for a long time. many years. It's more rare to find those folks that go from solo gigs to having other subcontractors going through them too. That's when all your points become really important. But you can be solo and not have to deal with a lot of that stuff you mention.

Re: Ask HN: What happens to older developers?

#149

Post by bane »

hglaser wrote: post #108
bane wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm at an inflection point these days on whether I want to push forward on the management path or go for the third path, as you mentioned above. FWIW, the few folks I know who tried to stay on purely technical paths ended up regretting it many years later. While the ones who went into management merely lamented the loss of their hard earned technical skills. Anecdotal, and I know there are lots of people on HN with…

> FWIW, the few folks I know who tried to stay on purely technical paths ended up regretting it many years later. Why?

I think a lot of it was career envy.

You see people who you hired as young developers end up, years later after going the management track themselves, in regular face to face interaction with the CEO or senior corporate executive VP or whatever.

Their peer group seems to have more control over their own destiny or more power or however you want to frame it, while they're still stuck bootstrapping yet another CRUD framework for the nth time and answering to a department head who's now younger than they are and getting younger every day.

I think, when that inflection point comes, you have to decide if you're okay with being in that position, and if working with the tech is enough for you...for some people, they honestly don't care about the careerism bit and just simply enjoy the bit twiddling and never get tired of doing it. You really have to decide if you're one of those people and it can be really hard to do so.

One mistake I see often is people, hitting that inflection point, conflating the pride they have in the effort they put into gaining the knowledge they have as being the same thing as the love of the art. And also the fear of jettisoning that life-style (and yes, development quickly becomes a lifestyle), for something entirely new and different with an entirely different set of skills that often have to be learned from scratch.

Re: Ask HN: What happens to older developers?

#150

Post by fsk »

moron4hire wrote: post #77

I'm 31 and I worry a lot about this issue. I live in the Washington DC area, which is extremely expensive. I am a freelance consultant, but my hourly rates are not very high. I have one client, and if someone in official IRS capacity were to look at us, they'd make my client make me a wage employee, the relationship we have is clearly not a subcontracting position. But this arrangement makes it possible for me to ear…

>$50k employee == $100k subcontractor

That's false. You can figure out out directly.

Paying your own social security tax: +7.5% (say $7500 out of $100k salary) Health Insurance: $700-$1000 per month (say $12k annually) 2 weeks paid vacation + paid holidays: +7% (another $7000 out of $100k salary)

So, $100k contractor is equivalent to ~$80k as a full-time employee with benefits.

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