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Ask HN: Bitcoin business unexpectedly taking off, help!

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Re: Ask HN: Bitcoin business unexpectedly taking off, help!

#141

Post by canvia »

work_account_1 wrote: post #101
dmm wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Money laundering is not unethical. It wasn't even illegal in the US until 1986. At the time the law was passed we were promised it would only be used against organized crime that couldn't be stopped any other way.

How exactly is money laundering not unethical? What's so ethical about assisting someone in getting away with a crime?

Just because something is illegal doesn't mean it is wrong. There are a lot of sociopath control freaks that want to dictate morality to the world, or to have power and control over others. There are many "crimes" that one might participate in that are perfectly valid business transactions such as consumption of controlled substances and prostitution. Right and wrong transcend words written on paper. One might argue that enabling the freedom to participate in these markets safely is extremely ethical and those attempting to restrict these markets are the criminals.

Re: Ask HN: Bitcoin business unexpectedly taking off, help!

#143

Post by tolmasky »

rtpg wrote: post #136
lprubin wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you need to explain why money laundering is unethical. Because there are plenty of laws passed by various governments that many people feel would be unethical to follow. To use an extreme example, was it unethical to hide jews from the Nazi's?

Money laundering happens to avoid paying taxes hiding Jews from the Nazis was to avoid them getting shipped off to death camps. The question is thus do you think that taxes are unethical? I don't think so but a lot of bitcoin fans seem to think so.

It can be more complex than that. An extreme pacifist could have no problem with taxes per se but feel that paying taxes today implicates him in war crimes (drones strikes, etc.)

Re: Ask HN: Bitcoin business unexpectedly taking off, help!

#144

Post by a1icey »

gamblor956 wrote: post #65
pemulis wrote: post #30

I just pinged you on Twitter, @jdshutt. I know a lawyer who specializes in tax law and is very interested in cryptocurrencies. If you want to get in touch with her, you can reach me at john.d.shutt@gmail.com and I'll send her e-mail. I'm on board with everyone saying that you need to talk to a lawyer sooner rather than later, and should work with someone who knows the area.

Tax law isn't very relevant here; the primary areas of concern are federal money transmission laws and criminal state and federal anti-laundering laws.

Actually, tax law is just the less scary area of risk.

Re: Ask HN: Bitcoin business unexpectedly taking off, help!

#145

Post by nacs »

joosebox wrote: post #125
rbosinger wrote: post #21

Are you planning on drinking a lot of coffee?

I feel dumb, but I'm wondering this too. How does he convert the Starbucks cards to anything not coffee - or not take a loss converting them to cash?

Well you can buy cookies, muffins and such with it too so maybe he's using it to feed himself.

But yeah I'm not seeing what the OP's benefit is unless coffee = same as cash for OP.

Re: Ask HN: Bitcoin business unexpectedly taking off, help!

#147

Post by dpweb »

I'm shocked that on a programmers/hackers forum people would tell a guy not to start a business because there's "probable" illegality. This kind of thing is the basis of all FUD.

There's obviously enormous gray area regarding btc's legality. Get your advice from an professional lawyer.

Re: Ask HN: Bitcoin business unexpectedly taking off, help!

#148

Post by jaredsohn »

nacs wrote: post #145
joosebox wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel dumb, but I'm wondering this too. How does he convert the Starbucks cards to anything not coffee - or not take a loss converting them to cash?

Well you can buy cookies, muffins and such with it too so maybe he's using it to feed himself. But yeah I'm not seeing what the OP's benefit is unless coffee = same as cash for OP.

There are a variety of websites that will give you at least some cash for your cards (useful if you have accumulated cards that you otherwise won't use).

Re: Ask HN: Bitcoin business unexpectedly taking off, help!

#149

Post by notahacker »

logfromblammo wrote: post #138
notahacker wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ethically, there's a difference between profiting incidentally from criminal activity because a fraction of your customers happen to be criminals, and having a business model which is viable largely due to criminal activity.

That difference being directly attributable to the criminal activity. If your business model is killing people and taking their wallets, you are unethical because you murder and steal, not because you have more money in your pocket after you do it. There was an idea floated a while back about why 51% of the miners couldn't just disavow the Bitcoin that FBI seized from Silk Road users. The answer was that it would com…

I'd argue that running a business providing services which are attractive primarily to criminals, like anonymously converting one means of payment to another for a 50% margin, is unethical even though money transmission per se isn't. YMMV

Re: Ask HN: Bitcoin business unexpectedly taking off, help!

#150

Post by anovikov »

hueving wrote: post #70
anovikov wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How a bitcoin which is anonymous can be laundering? A bitcoin in my understanding is black by default, it is like cash. If i was that guy i'd be happy (of course taking some protective measures as working through tor and having hosting in a 3rd world, but this is something i suggest everyone who does any e-business).

Cash IS what people launder.

Yes sorry, my mistake came from that i forgot that money laundering in west vs third world means opposite things. There is no money laundering in U.S. understanding of the term say, in Russia (because there is no need for it), and what's called money laundering is a completely different business, that escaped my attention, so i completely agree my comment was nonsense.
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