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Ask HN: Is it time for HN to implement a form of captcha?

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Re: Ask HN: Is it time for HN to implement a form of captcha?

#141

Post by Kim_Bruning »

swat535 wrote: post #72
rd wrote: post #5

I've always wished there was a "block comments from this user" feature that didn't rely on vibe-coding my own Chrome extension (and thus not work on Safari where I spent at least 50% of my HN time). I imagine it could even work like Sponsorblock does, and we could crowdsource people who's comments are inflammatory. I've also noticed that very obviously LLM-generated comments are called out, and the community tends to…

I don't think that kind of feature would be useful for HN. The one thing I like about this place is that it's well moderated and you have shared opposing view points engaging (mostly) respectfully. My personal and political views couldn't be further from most HN users (I'm both a Conservative _and_ a practicing Christian), yet I appreciate taking part in various discussion. I enjoy reading about point of views that d…

I don't know. Depending on what kind of conservative (and from where) and what kind of christian (and from where), you might be very much closer to a lot of HN people than you might think.

If your view is that we should conserve western values and institutions and walk in the footsteps of Christ, ultimately that's not too far from universal human values that many people do in fact agree with.

The devil is in the details, of course.

Re: Ask HN: Is it time for HN to implement a form of captcha?

#142

Post by Kim_Bruning »

subsection1h wrote: post #112
swat535 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that kind of feature would be useful for HN. The one thing I like about this place is that it's well moderated and you have shared opposing view points engaging (mostly) respectfully. My personal and political views couldn't be further from most HN users (I'm both a Conservative _and_ a practicing Christian), yet I appreciate taking part in various discussion. I enjoy reading about point of views that d…

> I'm both a Conservative _and_ a practicing Christian But unlike most HN users who label themselves conservative Christians, you've never suggested that climate change is a hoax: https://hn.algolia.com/?type=all&query=author:swat535+climat... I don't ever want to consume information from people who are so illiterate that they believe that scientists all over the world, in fields ranging from geoscience to statistics…

People don't represent groups. They represent themselves. Swat535 gets to define what being a conservative Christian means through their own words and actions, not serve as contrast to stereotypes about others.

Re: Ask HN: Is it time for HN to implement a form of captcha?

#143

Post by krapp »

ktallett wrote: post #41
rd wrote: post #5

I've always wished there was a "block comments from this user" feature that didn't rely on vibe-coding my own Chrome extension (and thus not work on Safari where I spent at least 50% of my HN time). I imagine it could even work like Sponsorblock does, and we could crowdsource people who's comments are inflammatory. I've also noticed that very obviously LLM-generated comments are called out, and the community tends to…

Do we have any users here that have such controversial or meme esque opnions that require blocking every single one?

There are a few users who, when you see their name in certain contexts (usually politics) you just know that comment chain going to turn into a train wreck. I'm not going to name names but anyone who's been here long enough could probably guess a few repeat offenders.

But mostly in my experience it's otherwise perfectly normal users who at some point just decide to post something racist or bigoted, advocate violence (again, usually in political threads) or antisemitism or espouse some insane conspiracy theory nonsense. At that point I no longer care about anything else they might have to say.

Re: Ask HN: Is it time for HN to implement a form of captcha?

#144

Post by JohnMakin »

otterley wrote: post #94
JohnMakin wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are dozens, if not far more, of captcha solver API's for extremely cheap. Captcha is very shallow bot "security" theater, they just deter the cheapest attempts. latest greatest versions of captcha are more resilient to these types of services, but it's a cat and mouse game. I would recommend that you, as a sysadmin, learn at least the most basic things about this stuff.

> I would recommend that you, as a sysadmin, learn at least the most basic things about this stuff. This sort of language is inappropriate and unnecessarily combative. In any event, no filter screen is perfect. Getting rid of 80% of bot traffic is a good thing, even if you can't rid yourself of 100% of it. You can't let perfect be the enemy of "pretty good." People use CAPTCHAs because they work--even if imperfectly.…

The GP comment was appealing to their own authority in a condescending way, I feel the tone was matched, but thanks for the feedback.

What you’re saying is true, although you can do simple blocks on user agent + geo ip alone and accomplish blocking a majority of bots anyway without captcha - but I’ll digress - that is not the topic of discussion. I’m not at all arguing that CAPTCHA doesn’t stop bot traffic - in fact my first comment says the opposite. Most bot traffic is extremely “dumb.” A mistake people make, which the gp comment seemed to, is that it stops bots dead.

Re: Ask HN: Is it time for HN to implement a form of captcha?

#145

Post by andyjohnson0 »

I'm noticing quite of lot of posts to Ask/Show that are basically people using HN as a blogging platform. Sometimes they're tech-flavoured AI slop wrapped around a few links - persumaby an attempt at SEO. Other times they seem to be posted by users who may genuinely think that this is appropriate usage. Or they're cheap rants. Mostly they seem to be posted by new accounts. It's not clear to me that a captcha mechanism would help with this.

Re: Ask HN: Is it time for HN to implement a form of captcha?

#146

Post by ranger_danger »

zz5759 wrote: post #125

I’m not convinced CAPTCHA is the right long-term solution anymore. Most low-effort bots can already bypass basic CAPTCHA, while it mostly adds friction for legitimate users. HN’s strength is the quality of discussion, and that seems better protected by behavior-based signals (account age, posting patterns, community feedback) rather than one-time verification challenges.

Can you name one "low-effort bot" that can bypass cloudflare captcha?

Re: Ask HN: Is it time for HN to implement a form of captcha?

#147

Post by 6510 »

tptacek wrote: post #58
lagniappe wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Almost everyone banned on HN is banned publicly, with a public message explaining why. I would love for this to be the case, however I quite extensively investigate this phenomenon and this does not match what I've seen. I'd like for us to be better than shadowbans. In some cases, I don't even get to vouch, it's just a comment that is banned-banned. It feels the worst when they're saying something substantive to the…

Every time I've looked into it, when you see suddenly and without reason ban-banned after a string of real comments, the backstory has been that it's someone with a track record under other usernames. At some point, no matter what HN does, being comfortable with its moderation requires you to take Dan's word for things. I take his word for it on shadowbans. Ironically, I'm irritated with moderation in the other direc…

I think the tech is advanced enough to recognize a user by their choice of words. Not to downplay the problem but currently a new user might start out with a few comments on the poor side then talk into the shadow realm indefinitely. In my not very humble opinion the asshole level of the poor comments can easily be lower than the asshole level of the response.

I wrote a fun solution one time where the document comes with a token that needs to mature for a duration depending on the user. Then, when your [say] 30 seconds are expired the input area is displayed but the submit button only appears if you input enough characters - where enough again depends on the user. If you are likely to make low effort postings I want at least 500 or 1000 characters worth of low effort. In even worse cases ill also hold the comment for moderation - until I get to it. (which might be a long time)

Re: Ask HN: Is it time for HN to implement a form of captcha?

#148

Post by 6510 »

tptacek wrote: post #78
lossolo wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this were clearly public (like written in the rules) then maybe it wouldn't be worth mentioning. But if it isn't, it's good for people to know, so they understand how their voting habits can affect whether their votes count, right? That's why I mentioned it.

Perhaps you should acknowledge that your claim of them refusing to tell people about this is false.

I don't have a down vote button with the comments. If my upvotes are irrelevant that button should also be removed.

Re: Ask HN: Is it time for HN to implement a form of captcha?

#149

Post by 6510 »

tptacek wrote: post #66
lossolo wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're also shadow banning/silently disabling your votes, and they will not inform you about this. You think you're voting on stories or comments, but you aren't if they perceive your behavior as "upvote too many flamewar comments, culture-war/ideological battle comments, or otherwise low-quality comments for HN" and "if a user has a track record of upvoting comments that break the guidelines and/or downvoting good…

This seems like an especially silly complaint on a site that is clear on the label about votes being just one of many signals deciding placement on pages and threads. We've known since 2008 that the HN experiment doesn't work if it runs off raw votes; you just get a front page full of memes.

Maybe it is possible to create such a [hidden] page.

Re: Ask HN: Is it time for HN to implement a form of captcha?

#150

Post by Baljhin »

SockThief wrote: post #32
rd wrote: post #5

I've always wished there was a "block comments from this user" feature that didn't rely on vibe-coding my own Chrome extension (and thus not work on Safari where I spent at least 50% of my HN time). I imagine it could even work like Sponsorblock does, and we could crowdsource people who's comments are inflammatory. I've also noticed that very obviously LLM-generated comments are called out, and the community tends to…

That kind of feature would be welcome. Blocking domains would be nice too. Like substack or medium. I'm happy to just ignore them, but it sure would be nice to filter them out if possible. I get that it's complicating the system and keeping it simple is perhaps for the best.

There's a userscript called 'HN Blacklist' that's existed for quite a few years, does what OP and others are asking for-- can hide/filter content from users, titles and domain sources {this was actually a request I submitted to the developer}: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43282379
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