Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Is ageism in tech still a problem?

news.ycombinator.com

141–150 of 193 posts

Re: Ask HN: Is ageism in tech still a problem?

#141

I don't think it's age. I think it's energy level and attitude. I'm in my 50s and had no problems getting hired 3+ years ago at a FAANG as well as a handful of other companies. Granted it was a good hiring environment, but I also took 3 years off and I had to work hard to Leetcode back into shape. I still have a lot of energy and it comes across in my interviews. I don't have an ego, I know that just because I have >…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Is ageism in tech still a problem?

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Expand your perspective. Things happen at 3AM in the real world. A tree falls over a power line in a storm, etc.

Indeed. Things happen, but in a well-functioning firm, they're supposed to be auto-handled by automated contingency processes that have already planned for it, with actions that are already in place. Alternatively, they have dedicated staff, possibly offshore, and onshore if needed. It is only at dysfunctional firms that one has to wake up for it.

What kind of "automated contingency process" is going to drive down a rural road in a blizzard with a chainsaw to get a tree of the power line?

Even the best organizations have emergencies, that's just life. A business which has everything perfectly automated and organized to handle anything that happens is also a business that has no employees, because they won't need anybody working for them.

Re: Ask HN: Is ageism in tech still a problem?

#143

Ageism is looking a one tree in a forest of extremely similar problems. We have a othering at scale issue in the species. It's fundamental. It needs to be recognized as an issue of, a problem with self determinism itself, the othering of those we are not intimate is a serious species-wise issue. There is another science here, waiting for formalization.

Yes, I think othering at scale is the root of most of our societal ills. It was likely a useful heuristic when we were sparsely spread out tribal creatures, similar to always assuming the rustling in the bush was a tiger and not just the wind. In a tightly woven, interdependent system like modern civilization, it is placing a huge strain on us structurally as well as psychologically. Add to this it is an easy exploit…

There is a multi-level dynamic at play, that I suspect has at it's roots the widespread lack of understanding of effective communications.

We are all alone, if not for communications.

It is bias in communications, knowledge of the various forms of bias, their methods, and countermeasures that enable individuals and groups to move past argument and towards shared understandings. With shared understanding naturally causes shared compromise and solutions. Without shared understanding, situations degenerate to stalemate, war, welfare states, and economic slave states.

Individual self conversation, recognition of it, it's biases and countermeasures lay a foundation for a rational individual. The lack of formal and public recognition of self conversation itself is hurdle one. Once that is recognized, a foundation for a rational public can be considered.

Then communicating with others inter-personally, with peers, spouses, coworkers, managers, authorities and strangers. Pairs, small groups, larger groups, and audience dynamics: these all have biases, which are often magnifications of the same bias at a self conversation level. New bias forms are here too, and they must also be recognized, understood, and countermeasures established. This is all nothing but communicating, but doing so effectively, causing understanding in others, and gaining understanding from those less communication-ally skilled.

Now let's take these biases and add in mass media, social media, and all the network effects they bring to the communication situation. Strangely enough, yet again the countermeasures that operate at lower levels continue to function here - except now we're dealing with the public. countermeasures now require public education.

I think by spreading knowledge of interpersonal and self conversation biases, their countermeasures immediate and positive effect lay the foundation for widespread respect of effective communications. After all, the lack of it often only needs to be pointed out for people to consider the ease of adopting knowledge about and the countermeasures that enable more success communicating, which directly correlates to actual success. And that is with everything a person does, because this perspective begins with one's self conversation, reducing the bias there, first. That generates a more rational person, more aware, more active. Push this to network effects, and now we're talking societal change. It's a plan to impress secondary considerations on the general public, because that's the primary countermeasure in communication issues: consider further.

Re: Ask HN: Is ageism in tech still a problem?

#144
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the parent comment said, he stood out for dressing nicely those years ago. Wearing jeans in the 2000s was not just tolerated or accepted, it was expected. I remember feeling wary of engineers who dressed up for interviews then, like they were trying too hard.

My impression is dress-culture was (and still is somewhat) different on the US East vs West coast. The tech company I worked for in the mid 2000s on the East coast explicitly forbid jeans in the dress code.

Very much my impression too. I work for an org with sites scattered across the country. My colleagues in Virginia still regularly wear suits, while I in California haven't even owned a suit in many years. For no particular reason I can discern, the gradient seems to be pretty linear. Our Texas people are right in the middle formality wise.

Re: Ask HN: Is ageism in tech still a problem?

#145

I would wager that it will get better soon. Once the LLM/Agent hype has died down and a few years of junior developers went down the drain untrained and unmentored, the demand for experienced seasoned developers will rise again. This is not to dismiss LLMs entirely, but they always get touted as “they can do ABC, as long as an experienced dev reviews the output”. And with LLMs hindering the growth of juniors in one w…

> Once the LLM/Agent hype has died down

Excuse me?

Re: Ask HN: Is ageism in tech still a problem?

#146

I experience it differently. As an IC that’s relatively respected it my field, I think my seniority seems like a threat to some leaders. Because my word carries weight and I tend to be less obsequious with little to lose in these interactions. I have less of a problem to saying “the emperor has no clothes”. Younger ICs don’t have this luxury. They go along despite their reservations and often feel they don’t know bet…

> I think my seniority seems like a threat to some leaders.

Boy do I feel this one. I'm 20 years in now and holy shit are there are a lot of bad leaders out there. What they all have in common is that they don't want to be gainsaid. Most leaders are completely allergic to meaningful feedback, hardly any of them ever ask for it. A lot of people seem to feel that once they are "in charge" they have somehow become infallible.

It's too bad because like `softwaredoug I love developing young people, most of them are very hungry for mentorship. I find that most younger ICs are very willing to listen and learn, but the leadership sees it as a problem for some reason that they're not struggling on their own on basic shit. What a waste of time of money.

Re: Ask HN: Is ageism in tech still a problem?

#147

When the 20 something 'senior' engineers and 'consultants' don't know how to test network connectivity by using openssl, telnet and ping, you don't won't to work there. It's more like a day care than college or high school ;) How can a 20 something with very little experience actually consult? Based on what experience?

Had a misfortune of working with 28-30 yo "management consultants" who "taught" best practices to 40-50yo experts in their fields (I'm talking specialists with 15-20-30 years of experience). That was... bizarre.

Re: Ask HN: Is ageism in tech still a problem?

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. Things happen, but in a well-functioning firm, they're supposed to be auto-handled by automated contingency processes that have already planned for it, with actions that are already in place. Alternatively, they have dedicated staff, possibly offshore, and onshore if needed. It is only at dysfunctional firms that one has to wake up for it.

What kind of "automated contingency process" is going to drive down a rural road in a blizzard with a chainsaw to get a tree of the power line? Even the best organizations have emergencies, that's just life. A business which has everything perfectly automated and organized to handle anything that happens is also a business that has no employees, because they won't need anybody working for them.

Huh. There are supposed to be dedicated pre-scheduled staff for it. If a storm is forecasted, the power companies have staff already waiting in trucks, ready to go anywhere in their designated zones. They are getting double or triple pay for it too if it's outside regular hours. Do not make the mistake of confusing it with waking someone up.

Re: Ask HN: Is ageism in tech still a problem?

#149
post #40

I would rather work with "old" engineers rather than 25/30 year old "senior" engineers. Places with older engineers means: 1. things are done properly 2. less to break 3. no need to be on call 4. excellent WLB (no grind n burnout culture) 5. excellent mentoring and learning opportunities 6. sniper / laser focus on business fundamentals / making money rather than making noise on the internet streets

None of these things are related to age or amount of experience. Someone with 20 years of mediocre experience will be mediocre, and they may also have a false sense of their own ability because they've managed to scrape by for so long.

Re: Ask HN: Is ageism in tech still a problem?

#150

I would wager that it will get better soon. Once the LLM/Agent hype has died down and a few years of junior developers went down the drain untrained and unmentored, the demand for experienced seasoned developers will rise again. This is not to dismiss LLMs entirely, but they always get touted as “they can do ABC, as long as an experienced dev reviews the output”. And with LLMs hindering the growth of juniors in one w…

I've seen this take on LLMs many times, and I don't share the certainty that LLMs hinder the growth of engineers using them. Sure, if you want to use an LLM to produce code that works you need to have enough knowledge and experience to be able to review and, if necessary, request changes. However, another (IMO, even more powerful) aspect of LLMs, is their utility as a learning tool. They excel at imparting knowledge…

You sound like someone who has developed a good work ethic and is comfortable with struggle. Likely because you didn't grow up with a magic thinking box to ask for help at the first bit of mental friction.
Post reply on HN