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Ask HN: How to handle a senior hire turning out to be junior?

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Re: Ask HN: How to handle a senior hire turning out to be junior?

#141

Post by codegeek »

"Do you think there is any way to rescue this situation?"

No.

"Or should we make this (perhaps justifiably, after their misleading self-presentation) the first time we let someone go for performance reasons?"

You need to let them go. Whether you call it performance reason or not is your call. You made a mistake hiring the wrong person. It is your fault. But you need to correct it by letting them go.

Doesn't matter whether you are a small team or large. Wrong hire is a wrong hire and things won't magically change just because you wish to. Fix the problem now and go back to hiring mode. Thank me later. Been there many times.

Re: Ask HN: How to handle a senior hire turning out to be junior?

#142

Post by codegeek »

bob1029 wrote: post #8

We had one of these. Excellent interview, couldn't even handle explorer.exe on the other side. We fired them within the week. No one felt bad about it. Just do it and move on. The longer you drag it out, the worse it will get.

The only correct answer in this situation.

Re: Ask HN: How to handle a senior hire turning out to be junior?

#143

Post by ethbr1 »

ewoodh2o wrote: post #118
UseofWeapons1 wrote: post #9

As you consider the decision to let them go, consider the impact on other people in your work place too. Other developers notice someone like that underperforming and getting overpaid, and it can hurt the good climate you aim for. It may feel bad to fire them, but it may be worse to keep them.

You absolutely need to consider how the rest of the team will interpret you actions. Most probably know this individual is underperforming already. Teammates usually have a sense before the manager does. But the way you handle it will also be observed. Others need to know you won’t just fire someone on the spot if performance doesn’t match expectations. Life happens, people have personal life issues that may occasion…

Do you have thoughts on offering PIP vs demotion and salary adjustment?

If the individual doesn't have the skills (or seemingly temperament) for a senior role, I'm not sure PIP is setting them up for success.

Versus demotion with possibility of promotion allows them to perform at their level of competence, leaving open the possibility for them to chose (or not) to aim for promotion.

Re: Ask HN: How to handle a senior hire turning out to be junior?

#144

Post by brunoarueira »

bob1029 wrote: post #8

We had one of these. Excellent interview, couldn't even handle explorer.exe on the other side. We fired them within the week. No one felt bad about it. Just do it and move on. The longer you drag it out, the worse it will get.

Couldn't agree more! I, personally, hired some devs which are good in a specific tech stack, but struggle to learn the stack which the company was using , keeping demands too much from themselves and I trying to teach them, doing pair programmings and they fired themselves! So, after this two cases, I tried to filter even more and had good new hires.

Re: Ask HN: How to handle a senior hire turning out to be junior?

#145

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

Fire them immediately.

I've been in this position before and the hire dragged down team productivity for almost a year as we struggled to find something that he was competent at. Wasted untold hours assigning other skilled devs to help him because we were sure that all he needed was a "bit more guidance."

After 9 months of this, our manager finally bit the bullet and he had to go. In nine months, we could not find a single task that he could be trusted to do and he had shown no improvement in that time.

Learn from our mistake!

Re: Ask HN: How to handle a senior hire turning out to be junior?

#146

Post by _puk »

teitoklien wrote: post #44
ssijak wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is just evil to both that person and your team. Just let the person go if they do not satisfy what they were selling them self as. Dont play evil and stupid games.

US is an exception in terms of at-will employment. In most other countries you cannot fire people just for reasons like this. In other countries people have to resort to backhanded ways like the parent comment mentioned if you want to get someone off the payroll.

And those countries generally have laws against constructive dismissal (which is what a lot of these "persecute then until they quit" recommendations amount to)

Re: Ask HN: How to handle a senior hire turning out to be junior?

#147

Post by kjkjadksj »

strnisa wrote: post #81

The real mistake is not correcting a mistake when you see you've made one. It's always hard to let someone go, especially in a small company with a focus on personal development and a positive work environment. However, if you don't address this situation: 1) The morale of the company will likely decrease. 2) The productivity of the team will suffer. 3) Employees may start questioning the leadership's decisions. 4) S…

At the same time I kept thinking if they did fire the dev those 4 points you listed would happen. Damned if you do damned if you don’t.

Re: Ask HN: How to handle a senior hire turning out to be junior?

#148

Post by ethbr1 »

ltbarcly3 wrote: post #96
throwaway42668 wrote: post #75

Let them go. Provide a respectable severance, since it's the company's fault they were hired in the first place. One of the most cost effective and humane things you can do is extend their health benefits out further than their monetary severance. For example, a month's pay with 2-3 months health benefits. At least in cases where I've had to let people go, I've found they appreciate an approach like this. It's a rela…

It was a mistake to hire, but they misrepresented thrmselves and aplied for a position they must have known they didn't qualify for. To be considered they must have significantly embellished their resume. Fire for incompetence, no severence.

It's hard for me to morally justify firing an employee for incompetence without severance... for an issue that was created by HR's incompetence. (And potentially the interviewing team, depending on how "mediocre" the rating was)

Re: Ask HN: How to handle a senior hire turning out to be junior?

#149

Post by cgio »

Mediocre rating and imposter syndrome but excelled in selling themselves? I don’t feel like this is the full story. What is the purpose of this ask? To receive validation and an excuse to go against some self perceived principles? If you look to let them go do it without requests for psychological support or pursuit of excuses. You are a human too and you deserve support, but in this situation, the other party will need more of it and possibly bears less responsibility for the outcome.
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