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Ask HN: Has the tech recession affected you?

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Re: Ask HN: Has the tech recession affected you?

#141

Post by mikhael28 »

sph wrote: post #98
Beltalowda wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> got burnout and disgust at the modern tech hiring practice. In my experience it's even worse outside of tech. Because I really need a job I've just been applying to everything. Minimum wage: I don't care. In a way I'm actually looking forward to just show up, do my job, and go home, without stress. But I get almost no response on those. And I actually spent MORE time for cover letters for those than the tech stuff.…

Fuck cover letters. I come from a country where cover letters aren't much of a thing, and most of the dehumanising is writing one, sucking up to the hiring manager why that company might be the best place ever and you're just praying someone, is all their wisdom, gives your CV half a glance, may God shine upon them. There is something Victorian in this prostration a working-class person must have to do just to be thr…

Interviewing is like flirting. Your vibe right now is "fuck dating, I'm a man, you're a woman, let's get married because we don't completely hate each other. You aren't that good looking, neither am I, but time's ticking."

Who wants to settle for that type of partner/employee, especially if that's who they are in the honeymoon phase of dating/interviewing.

Re: Ask HN: Has the tech recession affected you?

#142

Post by samstave »

spamizbad wrote: post #63

I’m a hiring manager. My company did a round of contractor layoffs in 2023 and made a smaller number of FTE hires backfills. My advice is to hang in there. Often we have 3 strong candidates per open position. The people we reject aren’t getting rejected because they aren’t a good fit or lack skills - it’s just that someone else was a little better. If I had the budget I’d hire all the great people I have the privileg…

>>>people we reject aren’t getting rejected because they aren’t a good fit or lack skills - it’s just that someone else was a little better.

This is one of the most disheartening negative impacts for looking for work when you have decades of success in your career:

"We appreciate you applying, but we found others who are better than you. Thank anyway, loser"

These emails, are lose-lose-lose; You lose by getting the email, you lose by the feeling it imbues, you lose because you dont have RHFL to your actions.

I would like a reverse RHFL - an AIRHL (which is what AI is meant to do) (AI Reinforced Human Learning)

Dont tell me I am rejected, I want to know where to improve...

This would be a wonderful triage app for AI going forward - is just a site such as linkedin, should have a GPT that reads your profile/CV and just constantly asks you Continuous Education questions, and gives you credits for answering correctly, and builds training modules for you...

Re: Ask HN: Has the tech recession affected you?

#143

Post by mikhael28 »

I haven't been affected, thankfully. I'm actually leaving my amazing job to go write a book, travel, maybe start a business.

I think it's interesting how in some ways the tables have turned for the people who used to interview me. When I was breaking into software five years ago, I remember how the interview process could feel dehumanizing. I was a self-taught developer, I didn't have a computer science degree. Insane interview questions that had nothing to do with writing stable & performant code, take-home assignments, automated ghosting and vague feedback that wasn't helpful in the slightest. All for the privilege of burning yourself out to build someone else's dream.

Nowadays, it sounds to me like a lot of older developers with 10, 15, 20 years of experience who never had to deal with this bullshit are suddenly discovering how interviewing for software engineering roles can be a tad capricious and arbitrary. After 10-15 years they know exactly what the job is. They know they can do it, and don't understand why they need to jump through all these other hoops.

It's not exactly schadenfreude, but I can't help but feeling that if engineering leaders and hiring managers had listened to the feedback from all the junior developers that came in between 2015-2020 about how insane the hiring process was and actually did something to improve it, perhaps those same 'staff' engineers or whatever they are calling themselves nowadays would be able to reap the rewards of the improved infrastructure created to effectively interview and place software engineers into roles they can have confidence they would succeed in.

Instead, you have the same shit I was wading through 5 years ago and it still stinks.

Re: Ask HN: Has the tech recession affected you?

#144

Post by righthand »

madamelic wrote: post #133
righthand wrote: post #89

The job market is extremely rough right now. I was one of the first layoffs of this job drought which happened to me in December 2022. I took a sabbatical and now jumped back into the job search in August 2023. I get very few call backs/interviews and I’ve been developing software for 20 years. I noticed companies are being excruciatingly picky during interviews. One interview for a senior position the interviewer ke…

> I was interviewed by someone who had only been in the industry for 3 years and at the company for 6 months and not a senior and told me I wasn’t qualified enough for a senior position because they couldn’t follow my explanation I am glad I am not the only one this has ever happened to. I honestly felt bad for the junior being forced to fly solo and I was thankful I didn't get a callback because I can't imagine the…

It was just bizarre to get that as feedback from the hiring rep since I was a referral. The hiring rep knew I was experienced, the rest of the interviewers had nothing but good things to say. The hiring team has a weird “if one person votes no then it’s over for you” but no one could defend the logic of it: “most of us think the candidate is qualified except this junior dev”

That tells me the hiring team just votes on a candidate with 0 discussion. Indeed not a healthy work environment.

Re: Ask HN: Has the tech recession affected you?

#145

Post by rcbdev »

mikhael28 wrote: post #141
sph wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fuck cover letters. I come from a country where cover letters aren't much of a thing, and most of the dehumanising is writing one, sucking up to the hiring manager why that company might be the best place ever and you're just praying someone, is all their wisdom, gives your CV half a glance, may God shine upon them. There is something Victorian in this prostration a working-class person must have to do just to be thr…

Interviewing is like flirting. Your vibe right now is "fuck dating, I'm a man, you're a woman, let's get married because we don't completely hate each other. You aren't that good looking, neither am I, but time's ticking." Who wants to settle for that type of partner/employee, especially if that's who they are in the honeymoon phase of dating/interviewing.

Conflating finding a partner (flirting) with finding a place that will transact your time and expertise for money (job searching) says more about how you see the world than you might realize.

Re: Ask HN: Has the tech recession affected you?

#146

Post by mikhael28 »

rcbdev wrote: post #145
mikhael28 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interviewing is like flirting. Your vibe right now is "fuck dating, I'm a man, you're a woman, let's get married because we don't completely hate each other. You aren't that good looking, neither am I, but time's ticking." Who wants to settle for that type of partner/employee, especially if that's who they are in the honeymoon phase of dating/interviewing.

Conflating finding a partner (flirting) with finding a place that will transact your time and expertise for money (job searching) says more about how you see the world than you might realize.

Not everyone flirts for the exclusive purpose of 'finding a partner', to take the analogy further. Some people do it to find someone to sleep with.

Not everyone works to 'transact your time and expertise for money' - some people want to 'fulfill a mission' with meaningful work, and build a purpose driven career.

The analogy works better than you think - at the end of the day, all I'm talking about is making a good first impression. What you may be looking for is up to you, but if you are looking to enter a mutually beneficial relationship whether it's personal, romantic, or financial - acting like a sourpuss isn't going to help you.

Re: Ask HN: Has the tech recession affected you?

#148

Post by jurassic »

jdksmdbtbdnmsm wrote: post #132
jurassic wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hang in there. Every rejection is bringing you one step closer to your ultimate goal.

> Every rejection is bringing you one step closer to your ultimate goal No, it's not.

If you consider that almost nobody gets a job without going through some rejection, it is. It's a stochastic process, and every interview is another roll of the dice.

Re: Ask HN: Has the tech recession affected you?

#149

Post by jurassic »

yieldcrv wrote: post #32

I tried to negotiate a verbal offer, swapping the signing bonus for base salary, ultimately moving base up not even 7% and they didn't even counter and moved on. very established company too, a highly unusual practice according to every recruiter, article, AI rehash, and person I’ve told this to I would say this is a symptom of the market. Employers flexing on the big pool

If they ended the conversation after a modest ask like that, you probably dodged a bullet. I bet they are also miserly at every annual review.

Re: Ask HN: Has the tech recession affected you?

#150

Post by yieldcrv »

jurassic wrote: post #149
yieldcrv wrote: post #32

I tried to negotiate a verbal offer, swapping the signing bonus for base salary, ultimately moving base up not even 7% and they didn't even counter and moved on. very established company too, a highly unusual practice according to every recruiter, article, AI rehash, and person I’ve told this to I would say this is a symptom of the market. Employers flexing on the big pool

If they ended the conversation after a modest ask like that, you probably dodged a bullet. I bet they are also miserly at every annual review.

organization had generous company wide bonuses not tied to individual performance

I’ve had great experiences with many companies that did something weird during the interview process or administratively

these functions are separate

there is no need to look for a silver lining

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