I do feel... somewhat disconnected. Ie, my thoughts on what a good API or lib looks like is different from what I find most often in the OSS world. Not sure if that's age-related. I re-invent wheels.
Ask HN: Is programming a “young person's game”?
141–150 of 151 posts
Re: Ask HN: Is programming a “young person's game”?
#142Re: Ask HN: Is programming a “young person's game”?
#143I am 71, started programming when I was 13 (my Dad got me access to a Basic time sharing system, using a teletype terminal). I am just now starting to feel like I can no longer be competitive as a professional developer. The younger people I work with just seem to get more work done. I feel like I understand aspects of business, software complexity, and practical aspects of development better than most people I work…
Re: Ask HN: Is programming a “young person's game”?
#144Re: Ask HN: Is programming a “young person's game”?
#145> You only see top programmers who started as kids and probably won some Olympiads and programming competitions, and this continued in their 20s and maybe kept their skill up till 30s but that's about it. What do they do after that? I know in mathematics, winning the math olympiad makes someone far more likely to win the Fields medal, but I haven't heard of a similar correlation in programming (e.g. for the Turing aw…
So what exactly were all of those "computer science" labs and the computer/software/networking industry doing at the time?
(Nothing against HyperCard, Intermedia, Xanadu, or America Online - they are/were interesting and/or successful systems that seem to have had some good ideas and features. And some 30 years later IPv6 does seem to be finally taking off.)
Re: Ask HN: Is programming a “young person's game”?
#146Re: Ask HN: Is programming a “young person's game”?
#147But with programming the age of being set out to pasture is much higher compared to sports or physical jobs. I've witnessed first hand guys in their 70's crank out productivity and creative ideas. One of the UNIX guys recently cranked out some new software in his 80's.
Re: Ask HN: Is programming a “young person's game”?
#148I'm 35, and i've done A LOT of tech hiring. I've witnessed first-hand other managers making comments about "older" coders such as "well, do we think they're going to be adapable?" or "Is it a good culture fit?" These questions are always thinly veiled ageism. Regardless of age, some people become set in their ways. With age, this becomes more apparent and noticeable because people are looking for it. Sometimes being…
It shows a lack of respect to call someone set in their ways, because no rational person wants to abandon their advantage to follow the vogue trends of the younger generation. It's basically like resetting your experience points back to zero. If you can't use someone for the coding craft they actually have, then you're leaving them with just soft skills and computer science judgement, in which case they'd be better s…
This a real dilemma and why people generally get more inflexible as they age.
On the one hand experience is definitely valuable. On the other modern society tends to "improve" (even if a lot of trends are fads). The value of experience and the cost of not following modern, better trends tends to have a complicated relationship, and eventually as you enter old age, society has changed so much that the value of experience becomes less relevant and the cost of being disconnected with modern society is so great that it becomes a liability.
But still, at every point in time, your point that no rational person wants to reset their XP to zero still holds. So it's inevitable.
I sometimes try to fight that by trying extra hard in understanding the newer trends and trying to adopt to them, but it's an uphill battle.
"Set in their ways" is probably just a way to describe the inevitable result. It's rational all the way down, but nobody said a rational agent would live happily ever after...
Re: Ask HN: Is programming a “young person's game”?
#149As you are older you simply have less free time.
You also usually have less to prove too which eats into your motivation.
Re: Ask HN: Is programming a “young person's game”?
#150~20 years ago, I did OK in a computing olympiad (IOI). I'm going to be 37 soon. Generally speaking I think I'm a better programmer than when I was 20 years ago. What are we doing now? Most of my peers back then are now in FAANG. (Google is the most common one, I think.)
Starting early is definite an advantage, but the field is so broad and varied that there's a place for pretty much everyone (yes, even for those writing CRUD apps). Unless you limit yourself to the top tier competitive programming scene, in which case it might be a "young person's game" if only because for most people it's kind of boring to do it day-in-day-out, and if you want to stay competitive on the top tier you need a lot of practice.
But if you just want a meaningful job and career in programming-related fields, there's room for everybody. People who win Olympiads don't necessarily perform better as a software developer (statistically they're somewhat better, but you could say the same for any marker for general intelligence). I've met a lot of great programmers that had a variety of backgrounds, and whether somebody has won an Olympiad doesn't really make any difference.
The skillsets required to be a good programmer these days is multifaceted, and those math/algorithm things are just one small slice of the whole picture. I would even dispute the claim that "programming and math... require the same thinking techniques". I'm pretty comfortable discussing algorithms, but put a gun to my head and I wouldn't be able to prove Pythagoras' theorem.
Instead, most of my work involves thinking how to write code to be more readable (this is definitely not a math thing), designing effective APIs, evaluating new technologies and libraries (especially whether to "trust" them as a dependency), and a lot of debugging and communication. I rely on years of experience and domain knowledge to do these effectively, and I'd like to think I get better with more experience. And since these skills are multifaceted, they are complicated to evaluate in a linear fashion.
It's impossible to design a competition for general programming skills, especially those with a human or aesthetic element. So programming competitions generally restrict the domain to a very narrow slice of programming, and those tend to resemble maths. In practice, programming doesn't have to be similar to math at all.
There's also no real reason to want to be a "top" programmer or a "kid prodgy" (whatever that means). Despite recent layoffs, tech is still a huge field and generally still growing. You'd be doing quite well even if you're, say, merely the 10000th programmer in the world (assuming it's possible to rank people like this in the first place).
That said, if you're somehow fixated to the idea that you want to do competitive programming and become a "top" programmer, starting at 30 is a huge handicap. You're obviously ineligible for the high school and collegiate competitions, and most of the top talent in the open competitions have a background in those. Experience in those competitions itself is a huge edge, since you get to hone your skills in time management and learn your own strengths and weaknesses. There are particular styles of coding and programming tricks that you learn in competitive programming that has little use elsewhere. That said it's just a game. Most people at 30 grow tired of the game. That's why those "kid prodgies" drop out and pursue other interests.