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Ask HN: Starting a Career in Programming at 61?

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Re: Ask HN: Starting a Career in Programming at 61?

#141
post #67
post #62

I would target a constrained area like android development, which has a limited set of technologies you need to master. Also, the feedback cycle is rewarding since you actually see your changes, and its good contractor work.

IME the expectation is you have pretty deep expertise of the platform, especially as a contractor and this takes a surprisingly long time to build on either of the mobile platforms.

Not as long as it takes to understand microservices, distributed computing, AWS cloud, Kubernetes, Docker, sql, no-sql, etc, etc.

Re: Ask HN: Starting a Career in Programming at 61?

#142
post #6

I am almost the age of your dad and I have been a professional software engineer since 1986. In the first years I worked with Pascal (VAX-Pascal and Turbo-Pascal.) From 1990, I mostly used C and C++. The last two years I have been working with C#. Now that I am getting a bit older, I noticed that it takes me more time to get know a developing environment and all the libraries/packages that go with it. It is a big lea…

Taking longer to get up to speed and setting up a development environment: I'm not sure that's a function of age. It's more likely because development environments truly have gotten larger and more complicated over time. I've been programming for 20 years - the amount of environment / config / tooling stuff to deal with just keeps getting bigger and bigger.

My experience is the same.

Re: Ask HN: Starting a Career in Programming at 61?

#143
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also thinking out loud... I started teaching my self to code w/ the intent of getting a coding job at age 38, and I got my first coding job at 40. Breaking into coding was brutal for me. I couldn't get taken seriously as a junior. I just had to keep grinding until I was good enough that someone would take me seriously as a mid-level. The way I did that was go super deep on learning Ruby super well. Then I found a com…

It would take him 5-10 years to become a competent programmer. Does he want to finally achieve stability in his career at age 70? I would suggest that he become a business advisor to small companies. His expertise is invaluable and he could be useful immediately.

Ya for sure, that's what people don't understand. It takes years to really be up to speed and really useful (maybe you can shortcut it with bootcamps, idk, I suspect not though but maybe you would know enough to be good for some tasks).

I had a friend ask me same thing as OP. He was 50, out of work at the time (had been in a trade before) and wondered if he could get into programming. I don't want to discourage anyone from learning to program because you can do a lot of cool stuff, but to be seriously industry useful isn't a matter of months and a few online classes but rather some dedicated years.

And (this might be an unpopular opinion) it's much harder if you don't natively think a certain way. Some otherwise smart people find programming pure torture and the chance of them going through the years needed is pretty low.

Re: Ask HN: Starting a Career in Programming at 61?

#144
I would rather think hard about all possible easier pivots before thinking about a whole new career because I feel stuck. If your father were pushed by his passion for programming, then I could advise differently, but that does not seem the case.

Can't you both think about creative ways to leverage his decades of experience as a top manager? Could it be that he is stuck in an employee's mindset and that's the true differentiator against your success? If so, why not help him in switching mindset instead?

If everything else fails, then - sure! - why not go for the programming route... Becoming proficient at programming takes lots of time, but he would have the advantage of your mentorship. And as for our industry's ageism, screw it! I would just team up, be the "young face" of our duo and customers would be none the wiser about 50% of their software being written by a geezer. Oh, well... that's what I would if I were young.

Good luck ;-)

Re: Ask HN: Starting a Career in Programming at 61?

#145

As a 61-year-old with almost 50 years of programming experience who recently got a new job, I can testify how almost no one wants to hear from an old person. I program for fun, too, and could be doing that full-time if I weren't working. I'm only employed now because I'm proficient in an older language (APL). Never mind my decades of experience in many other languages and extensive domain knowledge in finance, not th…

IME it's not pure 'ageism', but salary and workplace dynamics. Having had the privilege of working with many older devs, who played a big role in shaping my career...

After the first 2 decades your worth as an individual contributor (or at most, team lead) stagnates. You're probably at the top of the pay grade already, and the older you get the more you'll have to work with more junior people, as 'equals' despite having substantially more experience. It's very hard to give you any sort of career progression. You may be a lot more productive, but your 'multiplier effect' is small compared to a manager, or someone who deals with a lot more stakeholder complexity.

It's even more pronounced in current times where a 25 year old makes 100K (a lot in the UK). They're very unlikely to double their salary over the next 10 years in similar positions. Whereas most people start at 25K.. work their way up to 100K... exec level etc is 200K.

Successful 'pure' programmers who get jobs usually have an infra flavour of the month skillset, or make it clear that they're happy to get paid the same as someone with say 10 years of experience.

Most of them though go into strategy or become contractors.

Re: Ask HN: Starting a Career in Programming at 61?

#146

Personal anecdote… My father worked into his 80s and I saw firsthand how once he hit 60 years old how much harder it was for him to land a new job. As such, I’ve always gone out of my way to ensure such folks get a fair shot in my ~25 years of being a people manager. And every time I’ve hired someone 60+, even if they are new/junior for the role - it’s worked out in spades. The unique perspective, what’s seems like a…

Well said and I appreciate you being a good person. Have a nice evening

Re: Ask HN: Starting a Career in Programming at 61?

#147

Encourage him to take some classes online. If he has fun and then says he wants to be a professional programmer, your role is to honor and support that choice. Help him figure out which tools can be learned quickly and he can get paid for. Let him know it's okay to be slow. Help him when he's frustrated. Consider the possibility he may be using this as a way to know more about you. Good luck to him and to you. He see…

Really good points, thank you

Re: Ask HN: Starting a Career in Programming at 61?

#148
I'm in the same boat. Really hard to find work despite 25 years of experience in software design and production for some of the worlds biggest companies. Everyone just wants labor, programmers, project managers or producers it seems. Can't find anything at my actual experience level. Lots of IT and programming jobs (all requiring X certification and X number of years experience in X industry with X language blah blah cloud this Salesforce that. It's all just software development in my experience and just more and more platforms. The same skills apply and picking up new software and platforms is trivial compared to say, learning and mastering a language as a programmer. I'm about ready to buy a van to live in by the river until I die. I just want to apply my experience as a leader of people who aren't really preparing the company or the employees for the future, but everything seems to be gig or contract work.

Re: Ask HN: Starting a Career in Programming at 61?

#149
I would recommend he take operations roles at a tech startup.

Growing companies really need people who can keep things running as they grow. Experienced people want more senior and sexy roles, and inexperienced people can make fatal mistakes.

It's a nice combination of getting the logistics and relationships right, and the latter can be very rewarding.

He should shop himself to VC's as team filler. They'll relate to him, and can plug him in to gaps as needed.

Re: Ask HN: Starting a Career in Programming at 61?

#150
Just a question of eating a couple gallons of fish oil, fifteen softgels a day. It makes people feel five years old all over again.

You wanted my advice, I once received that same advice, I have the liberty of repeating it to you. I am under no obligation to lie to you.

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