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Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

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Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#141
post #37

I've noticed from recruiter email that some US companies have decided to go fully remote (no doubt due to COVID-19) and have started looking for talent in Canada, offering a bit more compensation than our local one (not parity) so I expect this effect will start pushing salaries up outside the US, starting with us in Canada due to time zone/language/culture.

Canada has out of control immigration quotas, that will push wages down, and quite a large brain drain to the US.

[citation needed]

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#142

Remote work will take care of this. Developers will work for companies in USA that can pay more. Companies want developers and will pay market rates. We will converge towards a global rate for devs.

Маybe, but currently the world is going towards decoupling, not internationalisation.

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#143
post #70

Make non-competes illegal (or, well, unenforceable).

Are non-competes common in Europe?

Sadly in UK they are, even though in practice they can be challenged (since the right to work trumps it, basically). To be honest I don’t think they are much of a factor when it comes to compensation though. It’s largely a cultural issue: SV was largely built by engineers for engineers, so there is an awareness of what a happy engineer can deliver to a company. In Europe anybody technical is just that, a technical resource, a cog. That also links into the degree of freedom they are (not) granted, freedom to choose their tools etc.

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of folks here are calling out the lower pay for SWEs in Europe and Canada as a failure - but also praise the low wealth inequality and low income inequality in Europe and Canada. You can't have low inequality by definition if you decide to start paying one group a ton of money. Well, this is a lot like the housing conversation in the US. "I want my house to go up in value, and be a great investment!" Also: "Why…

The wealth inequality debate is about Bezos and wall street ceo's type thing - I don't think many people have issue with some making $50k and others making $200k.

Remember the whole drive to push all the Techies out of SF? Remember rocks getting thrown at the Google busses? It's both.

At the end of the day Bezos makes headlines but his personal largesse has very little effect on most people in the country. It has very little impact on the lives of folks getting "pushed out" of SF. That's the folks he employs.

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#145

One way things might become more competitive is when more people become freelancers. The freelance market is more volatile than the rigidly regulated traditional labor markets allowing for larger pay increases during good times (and also decreases during bad times), in general, it approaches a more realistic compensation of real added value. Personally I've greatly benefited from becoming a freelancer in Europe and h…

Do you or somebody else in this thread have some tips for those of us who never freelanced but would be interested in giving it a shot?

What’s the best way to get started?

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#146

Remote work will take care of this. Developers will work for companies in USA that can pay more. Companies want developers and will pay market rates. We will converge towards a global rate for devs.

> Remote work will take care of this.

If by "take care of" you mean put downward pressure on European wages, then sure. Unrestricted remote competition would benefit 3rd world developers and the 1st world employers. But not the 1st world employee.

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#147
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One option is to emigrate to the United States Not an easy feat. Most would be reliant on the H1B program.

Which is not an issue for people immigrating from Europe.

In what way? Unless I've missed something significant the visa options for those emigrating from Europe to the US are limited. What options are there other than the H1B?

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#148

I got my higher education for free. I expect to save nothing for my children or their education. I expect to have to put aside very little for retirement. The thing is, I just can’t find an argument why I should be able to get very rich doing my job. It’s a comfortable job. It pays a good salary. I got here by taking no risk at all. I wouldn’t want to switch jobs just to drive up my pay even if I could. I have other…

I'm kind of surprised by the idea of saving nothing for your children. Is it a symptom of the dog eat dog American system of capitalism that it seems kinda wild to me? I guess if you can be certain that their fundamental needs will be met, it isn't as important. But in the US your life can be pretty crap, even if not abject developing world style poverty.

It's because most people in Europe don't really make enough to do so.

Also if you somehow manage to increase your income, over half of it disappears in taxes and social security contributions.

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#149

I got my higher education for free. I expect to save nothing for my children or their education. I expect to have to put aside very little for retirement. The thing is, I just can’t find an argument why I should be able to get very rich doing my job. It’s a comfortable job. It pays a good salary. I got here by taking no risk at all. I wouldn’t want to switch jobs just to drive up my pay even if I could. I have other…

I'm kind of surprised by the idea of saving nothing for your children. Is it a symptom of the dog eat dog American system of capitalism that it seems kinda wild to me? I guess if you can be certain that their fundamental needs will be met, it isn't as important. But in the US your life can be pretty crap, even if not abject developing world style poverty.

I am not sure what that alludes to either. Germans and Italians save huge amounts of their income (typically, higher than the US).

You still need to save for a pension in almost every European economy, one isn't given to you (state pensions in Europe, even in the UK, are contribution-based). Welfare systems in Europe are not redistributive like in the US, they are typically contributory (you get out what you put in). So there is no sense in which your fundamental needs will be met irregardless of anything else.

I think the issue with the US is that you have a very redistributive political economy, and so many people believe that those elements are the same everywhere AND they could have all the free healthcare...it doesn't really work that way (marginal tax rates on middle-class incomes are above 50% in some European economies, and top rates are usually lower than in the US...try doing that in the US).

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#150

I got my higher education for free. I expect to save nothing for my children or their education. I expect to have to put aside very little for retirement. The thing is, I just can’t find an argument why I should be able to get very rich doing my job. It’s a comfortable job. It pays a good salary. I got here by taking no risk at all. I wouldn’t want to switch jobs just to drive up my pay even if I could. I have other…

Well if your company is doing well then someone is getting rich. Could be management, CEO, investors or whoever else. Sure you may be okay with it, but clearly not everyone is (hence the question).
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