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Ask HN: Laid-off readers over 50, have you left the tech workforce?

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Re: Ask HN: Laid-off readers over 50, have you left the tech workforce?

#141

Honest question here, why is there ageism in hiring in IT? What does it buy any employer to shoot for younger, less experienced workers? I'm probably naive but I don't get the logic.

My thoughts:

You are there to burn brain cycles for a fixed pay, a high pay at that. Experienced older crowd demands higher pay. Most gigs could care less about their experience; 95% of the gigs consists of mundane task completion and pump out code demanded by often micromanagement processes.

Older crowd is more likely to question, call out bs, and demand work life balance.

Young are more impressionable, willing to burn the candle night after night. 24-hour long hackathons on soda and pizza anyone? This is unhealthy in so many ways lol. This says more about the profession rather than ageism. Name another profession where people willingly accept working under such unhealthy circumstances, especially off the clock. Lunch at your desk is the norm.

Fuck it! Frankly, the profession is ideal for a (wo)man-child, crippling any mature, healthy social development. End of the day, it's you and the computer 1v1. No one outside IT/tech gives two fucks about your abstraction flame wars, coding practices yadi yada unless bottom line is suffering. They'll throw bodies at the problem. Meanwhile Stfu and code.

Re: Ask HN: Laid-off readers over 50, have you left the tech workforce?

#142
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow thousands of jobs! Could you explain: * How do you even send that many applications? Is there some site where you can click thousands of checkboxes and apply? Do you send individual emails? * What modifications do you make when applying from job-to-job? * What adjustments did you make along the way? Did you change your resume or make any other major changes to how you were presented? * For how many of those jobs…

I’ve seen this happen to people. You get depressed and focus on sites like Monster/etc that are mostly bullshit generic posts and agencies trolling for resumes. No interviews because there are no jobs.

I'm stuck in this rut. What can I do to break out of it?

Re: Ask HN: Laid-off readers over 50, have you left the tech workforce?

#143
post #90

Ha, ha, ha, I just got laid off Monday along with most of the rest of the team with no notice. The market seems to be fairly hot here in Fairfield county CT so I'm jumping right back in and expect to pick up another job/contract in the next month. It's just a matter of rate and commute... It is tempting to just do my writing or something else but I love the work, it pays well and it's fairly expensive to live here. S…

Thank you for sharing @zenpaul

Re: Ask HN: Laid-off readers over 50, have you left the tech workforce?

#144
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am curious. If what you described is a standard technique people can use, what prevents the recruiters/talent acquisition to, by default, discard resumes/CVs without exact dates?

I assure you it is a standard practice, but why would recruiters discard resumes without exact dates 'by default'? Because the assumption is that those people are 'old'? That may answer the question for you, but ageism is a legal concern and disqualifying candidates because they didn't tell you when they graduated isn't dissimilar to asking someone how old they are in a job interview and refusing to hire them if they…

Thanks for replying fecak. Your answer addressed what I wanted to know. :)

Re: Ask HN: Laid-off readers over 50, have you left the tech workforce?

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve seen this happen to people. You get depressed and focus on sites like Monster/etc that are mostly bullshit generic posts and agencies trolling for resumes. No interviews because there are no jobs.

I'm stuck in this rut. What can I do to break out of it?

Dabockster- I did a stint as a tech recruiter a while back (not doing that anymore), so I can offer some perspective from the other side of the table - although limited.

A few questions:

1. How many events do you attend per week? (could be related to any industry at all - could be a tradeshow, a panel of speakers, tech meetups - anything really)?

2. How many hands do you shake at each event?

3. How many people from these events do you follow up with?

If your score is "0" for all of the above then you are doing it all wrong.

You need to meet people in person, each week. The only way to do that short of showing up at the front desk, resume in hand, is to go to events.

You need to set a goal of attending 1-2 events per week (minimum), and figuring out how to get in front of hiring managers from companies you admire.

Figure out what events those people might attend socially or professionally. Get up to speed with events in various industries in your city.

Get comfortable with being uncomfortable at events, and find a way to make them enjoyable.

People who log facetime at events do immediately jump to the top of the pile compared to people like you who are #200-300 at the bottom of the stack in the applicant tracking system for some BS job posting on Monster (many of which are for non-existent jobs).

Don't be #300.

Start attending events!

There's no reason you should have to apply for 3,000 jobs, that is a waste of time.

Start working smarter - even if you are introverted and awkward in person.

Now pick your head, up, get out there and get started!

You can do this!

D.

Re: Ask HN: Laid-off readers over 50, have you left the tech workforce?

#146
post #18

I lost my last permanent job in London at the end of 2008, at the beginning of the financial crisis in the UK. I applied for about two thousand roles in 2009 alone, and from 2008-2013, about 3,500 roles in total... In about 6-8 countries in multiple disciplines. I averaged 30+ applications _per day_ at first... and 1 interview per year. From 2009 to 2013 I got 2 months of paying work in total. Reason? I think it's be…

"I think it's because I was 41 when I started." Doubftul. I was 40 when I was looking a couple years back and had a better conversion rate of application -> interview than I've had in my entire life. This is for Rails/React work. I had 15 interviews out of maybe 25 or so applications, had a few opportunities I turned down and landed perhaps the best job I ever had. I'm beginning to look again at 42 and got 5 intervie…

Maybe you're the outlier; maybe the other person is the outlier. Maybe 2009 is the outlier. Based on anecdotes, I feel like it's hard to say one way or the other.

Re: Ask HN: Laid-off readers over 50, have you left the tech workforce?

#147
Sorry to hear. While I'm not over 50, I went through something similar at one point and took the opportunity to spend some time on a passion project before going back into the workforce.

Despite the frustrating situation, you'll end up better off. And if you're looking to get back to the tech workforce, here are some tips that I hope might help: https://medium.com/layoff-aid-blog/how-to-hack-the-tech-job-...

Re: Ask HN: Laid-off readers over 50, have you left the tech workforce?

#148
post #18

I lost my last permanent job in London at the end of 2008, at the beginning of the financial crisis in the UK. I applied for about two thousand roles in 2009 alone, and from 2008-2013, about 3,500 roles in total... In about 6-8 countries in multiple disciplines. I averaged 30+ applications _per day_ at first... and 1 interview per year. From 2009 to 2013 I got 2 months of paying work in total. Reason? I think it's be…

Sorry, those 3500 recipients could not have known that you're 41 and tossed the application on that basis. There is just some problem other than the one you imagine. > I used to mainly work in support, from 1st/2nd/3rd line to sysadmin, systems design and spec, network architect, everything. I do Windows, Linux, Mac OS, networking, comms, some programming knowledge, training, all sorts. But I'm too old to get work as…

Besides the other examples which have been given here there are some subtle flags, too, which apparently are often used as indicators of age on a resume. I saw a whole list of these things somewhere once but I only remember a couple of them right off the top of my head.

For example, I took a typing class back in the day and I was taught to always put two spaces after the end of a sentence. But today this flags you as "old".

Also, for me a properly formatted phone number looks something like this, per convention back in the day: 800-123-4567. But today you'd better write it like the following, else you're "old": 800.123.4567.

And so on.

Of course, one of the benefits of being "old" and still working in the tech field is the ability to toss out little gems like the following, which can be remarkably effective at putting some youngster in their place, when necessary: "Jesus, what a freaking noob thing to say/do!"

Another benefit is being able to walk into a situation where the local kids are maybe in a bit over their heads, whipping out what is to them some old and mysterious IT magic, and then start solving their problems in short order. One of the last times I did this I heard "Wow, we've been trying to figure out how to do that for years now!"

Re: Ask HN: Laid-off readers over 50, have you left the tech workforce?

#149

Honest question here, why is there ageism in hiring in IT? What does it buy any employer to shoot for younger, less experienced workers? I'm probably naive but I don't get the logic.

There is this notion that only 'younger' people can be innovative and the more experience you have the more your 'neural network' is solid and using 'proven' solutions, which limits outside of box thinking. - this is what I have read some time ago in a piece about 'Ageism'

Re: Ask HN: Laid-off readers over 50, have you left the tech workforce?

#150
post #90

Ha, ha, ha, I just got laid off Monday along with most of the rest of the team with no notice. The market seems to be fairly hot here in Fairfield county CT so I'm jumping right back in and expect to pick up another job/contract in the next month. It's just a matter of rate and commute... It is tempting to just do my writing or something else but I love the work, it pays well and it's fairly expensive to live here. S…

Expected the top post to be filled with words like ageism, 3rd world, quality of software, cheap labor and rage but all i saw is Optimism, Reality and Stoicism expressed very poetically.
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