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Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

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141–150 of 642 posts

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#141
post #7

Adderall and Cocaine. I remember a CEO of one of my early startups would give me 5mg addies to help me get more done. I appreciated it because it was great to get the added boost to focus. I eventually worked my way up to taking 30mg of XR daily (legally, doctor prescribed) and it was the most productive I have ever been in my life. I worked 24x7. I was working a normal consulting job while also working on a startup/…

Any chance you can explain why? Not enough hours in the day kind of thing? Is the only route to success in software engineering to work 24/7?

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#142
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

chiming in here to corroborate that stimulant use/abuse is heavily prevalent in scientists and startup types that i know. even the md/phd types who have been in clinical practice for 20 years do it, even after they've had kids etc. most only abuse coffee-- you can tell because the norm is to drink coffee until you're literally red in the face when there is serious work to get done. there are people who abstain, of co…

So is it almost impossible to be a top scientist in your field if you don't get some help so that you can have those epiphany-producing insights, etc?

I... doubt that's true. I imagine there are people who think that this help will help them become top scientists (and maybe we should have a talk about the pressure to succeed etc.). But I suspect that a lot of the actual top scientists are plain good at what they do, and they neither need nor want the effects of drugs in their work.

(Which is very different from recreational use, of course, or recreational use turning into addiction.)

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#143

The #1 and #2 drugs consumed by far in Silicon Valley are simply processed/refined sugars and caffeine. The former via foods of all kinds and sodas, snacks, and the later via coffee and sodas. These are far more dangerous drugs in this sense... even a small child can tell you cocaine is bad for you or that LSD is a “drug”, but no one considers soda and coffee to be drug laced. These are the real gateway drugs, by far…

I never really got the point of people referring to things other people eat or drink with terms like "poop".

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#144
post #142
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So is it almost impossible to be a top scientist in your field if you don't get some help so that you can have those epiphany-producing insights, etc?

I... doubt that's true. I imagine there are people who think that this help will help them become top scientists (and maybe we should have a talk about the pressure to succeed etc.). But I suspect that a lot of the actual top scientists are plain good at what they do, and they neither need nor want the effects of drugs in their work. (Which is very different from recreational use, of course, or recreational use turni…

Part of what I'm trying to determine is if that pressure to succeed makes people believe they need something to be competitive. My daughter, for example, sometimes feels like she's at a disadvantage at college because so many of her peers are taking adderall (w/o a prescription) for tests and studying. Is it the same after college, professionally?

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#146
Yes. This is something that needs to be discussed.

Almost every engineer is using some kind of stim in the morning and sedative in the evening. This can be as benign as caffeine/alcohol, but I've seen this escalate to any one of: caffeine, Provigil, cocaine, (meth)amphetamines on the front end, and alcohol, THC, Xanax and even ketamine on the backend.

It's the only way to deal with the abusive hours. We used to joke at a company I worked at-- that if you weren't an alcoholic, you would be in a couple of years.

Bad companies, really bad ones are setup like this: you have to break the rules to get your job done. But some people are blessed by management and others aren't. X breaks the rules because he's a brilliant leader, Y breaks the rules because he's a worthless loser. We had a VP and PM doing coke, fucking each other (very illegal in California), abusing the staff with bizarre and drug-fuelled behavior, all of which was ignored and encouraged. I was fired for "writing a rude e-mail." :-)

For a time, there was even a dealer in the buildings mail room. You put in an order, and in a couple of days, a DHL, FEDEX, etc. comes with your order.

There's a very real human cost to this stuff. I've seen guys have a stroke in the office due to pressure. If there's any way I can help, let me know.

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#147
post #95

This is tangentially related but I attend a leading CS university which sends a lot of students into highly sought after tech, consulting, and investment banking jobs. Students here do every drug under the rainbow and they do them a lot. When I talk to students at other schools the problem doesn't seem to be anywhere near as widespread.

Does that make you think it's a problem in computer software more than other professions?

I think (not OP btw) that it is more a problem of being in a highly competitive enviroment? These people are all trying to one up each other, which will eventually leads to finding substances to getting an edge over others? (otherwise they wouldn't be there in the first place?)

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#148

The #1 and #2 drugs consumed by far in Silicon Valley are simply processed/refined sugars and caffeine. The former via foods of all kinds and sodas, snacks, and the later via coffee and sodas. These are far more dangerous drugs in this sense... even a small child can tell you cocaine is bad for you or that LSD is a “drug”, but no one considers soda and coffee to be drug laced. These are the real gateway drugs, by far…

I never really got the point of people referring to things other people eat or drink with terms like "poop".

With coffee there is actually a link to poop in some cases: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kopi_Luwak

:-)

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#149

Adderall and Cocaine. I remember a CEO of one of my early startups would give me 5mg addies to help me get more done. I appreciated it because it was great to get the added boost to focus. I eventually worked my way up to taking 30mg of XR daily (legally, doctor prescribed) and it was the most productive I have ever been in my life. I worked 24x7. I was working a normal consulting job while also working on a startup/…

This sounds kind of in line with the theory that drugs are kind of a zero-sum game. You got a lot of speed earlier on and achieved a ton, but then paid for it later on. Kind of like a, "no such thing as a free lunch" economic theory, but for drugs! Not to knock you or your methods, just an observation.

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#150
post #129
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting! That is... really quite surprising to me. I don't know many people anywhere in the world who don't at least recreationally take drugs. I think perhaps we just inhabit different worlds. One thing I can promise you though, is that you do know people who are taking stimulants. They just aren't telling anyone :)

I have to say I agree with 'stzup7. I work in finance in NYC; it's a high-money, high-tech, high-drinking environment. I have coworkers that work too hard. They're not taking anything more than coffee. I know a couple of people outside of my field who are taking stimulants and talking about it. I know a couple people within my field (and outside) who take drugs solely recreationally, not as a performance booster or a…

Your last point is a particularly interesting one. A lot of the most productive and skilled people I know are also very clean. But a good number of them are also using stimulants.

I think we all inhabit a world of people who think they are productive - in the sense that many people optimise for the appearance of productivity as opposed to optimising for actual productivity or value generation. I can honestly say that stimulants make a vast, objective difference to my work output and quality (but I actually do have ADD so I'm not a good measure). I have also seen many other people produce extraordinarily good work on stimulants. At the same time some of the very best people I know don't need them and wouldn't touch them. We don't all have the natural ability or background those people have, so stimulants are a proxy. Quite probably many people are not achieving their maximum potential simply by using stimulants. Quite probably many people are decreasing the quantity or quality of their output by using stimulants. But objectively (as in, see the scientific literature) they do work. Whether people make them work for them is a different matter.

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