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Ask HN: How much do developers earn in Europe?

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Re: Ask HN: How much do developers earn in Europe?

#141

Post by baybal2 »

varjag wrote: post #116
stale2002 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because what matters is context. Whether or not Russians fantasize about attacking Berlin has absolutely nothing to do with conversations about tech salaries. I'd say that in the context of conversations about European tech salaries, Western Russian cities should absolutely be included.

Why not the eastern ones then? There is hardly any discernible ethnic, linguistic or cultural difference between Smolensk and Vladivostok.

>There is hardly any discernible ethnic, linguistic or cultural difference between Smolensk and Vladivostok.

I will gladly watch what will happen to you if you say that in Vladivostok suburbs after 1:00 am ^_^

"DISCLAIMER: this is a joke and should not be take seriously"

Re: Ask HN: How much do developers earn in Europe?

#142

Post by pc86 »

kuschku wrote: post #109
Bahamut wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of US companies tend to pay in USD regardless of locale when hiring remote.

That would suck so much, taking a 30% paycut just in the past 7 months due to this.

It would also suck for the company to have payroll costs increase 30% because one of their remote devs happens to live in another country :)

Re: Ask HN: How much do developers earn in Europe?

#143

Post by pc86 »

pmlnr wrote: post #41
shanwang wrote: post #40

Can't open the doc because it's blocked by my employer. But generally the developer wage is very low in Europe compared with US(Bay area). AFAIK London have the highest salary among european countries, usually handed out by Investment banks and other financial service companies. In London a tier 1 bank's VP developer will typically get £90k-110k base, plus 15-40% bonus. If you work for a hedge fund, the base is typic…

> But generally the developer wage is very low in Europe compared with US(Bay area). Because it usually comes with built-in social security and nationwide health insurance. > AFAIK London have the highest salary among european countries, Nope. Scandinavia.

> Because it usually comes with built-in social security and nationwide health insurance.

In what universe do companies offer a lower salary because the country offers a better social safety net?

Re: Ask HN: How much do developers earn in Europe?

#144

Post by yardie »

Fradow wrote: post #118

In case you are interested, Urban Linker (french recruitment agency) publish somewhat detailed salary stats (in French), last one is form 2016 [0]. This only covers Parisian region, but it's really interesting to see how technology affect the salary. [0] https://www.urbanlinker.com/le-webzine/etude-des-salaires-de...

This actually lines up with what I, a mid level .Net dev was expecting. When I first arrived in Paris I thought the compensation was low, but I was educated that that was the standard. It's improved a bit but not a whole lot.

Paris is still a great city to live in. We even managed to live there with child.

Re: Ask HN: How much do developers earn in Europe?

#145

Post by briandear »

pmlnr wrote: post #41
shanwang wrote: post #40

Can't open the doc because it's blocked by my employer. But generally the developer wage is very low in Europe compared with US(Bay area). AFAIK London have the highest salary among european countries, usually handed out by Investment banks and other financial service companies. In London a tier 1 bank's VP developer will typically get £90k-110k base, plus 15-40% bonus. If you work for a hedge fund, the base is typic…

> But generally the developer wage is very low in Europe compared with US(Bay area). Because it usually comes with built-in social security and nationwide health insurance. > AFAIK London have the highest salary among european countries, Nope. Scandinavia.

That logic makes no sense. Since health isn’t an employer cost, salaries in Europe should be higher than the US where the employer incurs health/social costs. However, in France “social charges” are incurred by the employer which means that their cost per employee is about double of their actual salary. That means that French employers are paying social charges which finance those who aren’t employed.

In the US:

An employer pays salary + health costs for that employee.

In Europe:

Employer pays salary + health costs for both the employee AND the rest of society. Which means your European salary is subsidizing other people not even related to the company.

On top of that, the employee gets to pay tax rates approaching 50% in many cases.

The average take home pay after factoring out health costs and benefits is dramatically lower than an equivalent position in the US.

Re: Ask HN: How much do developers earn in Europe?

#146

Post by thinbeige »

Slightly OT but maybe helpful: Don't focus too much on the salary. It's just one tiny part of the whole package.

Your dev job pays your rent, food and savings. I assume that most dev jobs do this quite well.

Beyond this, the main goal of a job is to increase your future market value, your professional network and to have fun. So. basically it's about how much you are worth in your next job and that you enjoy your time.

A high salary doesn't help you if you do stuff which doesn't matter in a few years.

A high salary doesn't help you if you work at an unknown company which goes bankrupt in a few months and you cannot show a finished product or that you can stay at one job longer than 12 months.

A high salary doesn't help you if your coworkers are toxic or not the smartest guys or their English is on such a basic level that the communication and not the coding is your daily challenge.

A high salary doesn't help you if your CTO is a passive-aggressive, clueless guy who doesn't talk.

A high salary doesn't help you if you just work on some side projects nobody cares about, in a programming language you weren't hired for.

A high salary doesn't help you if you are not happy.

Re: Ask HN: How much do developers earn in Europe?

#148

Post by scarmig »

thinbeige wrote: post #146

Slightly OT but maybe helpful: Don't focus too much on the salary. It's just one tiny part of the whole package. Your dev job pays your rent, food and savings. I assume that most dev jobs do this quite well. Beyond this, the main goal of a job is to increase your future market value, your professional network and to have fun. So. basically it's about how much you are worth in your next job and that you enjoy your tim…

Happiness is paramount. And especially early on having opportunities for growth matters.

But after a couple years in the industry? A high salary goes really far. Note that "high" means different things to different people, but choosing a 300k/year job over a 200k/year job is often a good idea, even if it's to do stupid shit and not change the world. That doesn't mean you should choose misery over happiness for money, but it's rare that the choice is that stark.

Most tradeoffs are ill-defined and uncertain when you're choosing the job. Salary, on the other hand, is directly comparable, and it translates to something very real and concrete.

Re: Ask HN: How much do developers earn in Europe?

#149

Post by BrandoElFollito »

scarmig wrote: post #148
thinbeige wrote: post #146

Slightly OT but maybe helpful: Don't focus too much on the salary. It's just one tiny part of the whole package. Your dev job pays your rent, food and savings. I assume that most dev jobs do this quite well. Beyond this, the main goal of a job is to increase your future market value, your professional network and to have fun. So. basically it's about how much you are worth in your next job and that you enjoy your tim…

Happiness is paramount. And especially early on having opportunities for growth matters. But after a couple years in the industry? A high salary goes really far. Note that "high" means different things to different people, but choosing a 300k/year job over a 200k/year job is often a good idea, even if it's to do stupid shit and not change the world. That doesn't mean you should choose misery over happiness for money,…

Well, having had a few times the opportunity to do such a move, I stayed at my previous job. Good atmosphere, cool company (a big one), located in such a way that my 15 km bike commute is 70% in a forest, no travel, yell at my children every night so that they do their homework/wash teeth etc.

What would these 100k give me? Not much - I will comfortably retire when time comes. I would consider a 500k increase as it would change my life and probably help me to retire earlier.

I belive that what revenue brings in a set of plateaux. When you start every euro counts, then comes a plateau and you move up after a significant change of salary. Which brings some acceptable/bereable drawbacks.

Re: Ask HN: How much do developers earn in Europe?

#150

Post by BrandoElFollito »

ciaoben wrote: post #71
LusoTycoon wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, please edit the survey so the data becomes more readable.

I edited, any other suggestion? I will publish polished results when will end data gathering

It would be great to have a reference currency (EUR probably) so that the comparison is easier.
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