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Ask HN: How do you earn your money?

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131–140 of 154 posts

Re: Ask HN: How do you earn your money?

#131

Worked hard for 10 years in various web development shops, started a company with two of the smartest people I met during that time, sold it, worked through golden handcuffs, and had a nice exit. Now I live off of interest from fixed income investments and am currently looking to pivot my career from web development into computer graphics/games/VR since I think a revolution is coming. I love programming and don't nee…

jabbathehut, you've just described my situation as well. Worked hard for 8 years at various VC/self-funded startups as founding hire, went solo in between startups, and don't need to work either - although for me, it is more of a combination of passive income and frugal living - I like to work and solve problems. I recently lived in South America for six months and realized after the novelty wore off that I really wanted to make cool things that will change the world in a big way. In fact, I ended up spending most of my time working on this while living there, so I came back to the US to move things faster.

May I ask where you're based out of? The computer animation/games/video revolution is definitely coming and I see very valuable applications of the technology outside of the gaming space. The immediate opportunity/problem I'm working on solving is in a growing global niche market. The idea came from a problem I had in this space. Users (including myself) are paying lots of money but there's nonexistent innovation and almost every user I spoke with is in interested in trying this. I'm fairly location independent, and I'd love to meet up/chat to talk more; if you're interested, please feel free to email me at yuzshan [At] gmail [d0t] com

PS I'm also in my early thirties. Great book by the way.

Re: Ask HN: How do you earn your money?

#132
post #14

"...can't help feeling i'm building a dream for someone else." The reason so many people are content with being employees, rather than striking it out on their own, has to do (at least in part) with their risk tolerance. If you want a stable, steady income, and you don't want to put a lot of your own money at risk, then you might find that being an employee is the way to go. Yes, other people (investors in the compan…

That's awesome to learn about worker co-ops. I was thinking about starting a software development or SAAS company where every person is a worker/owner, so it's good to know they already exist. Here's what I'd love to do if I ever started my own company: I start the company with 1 or 2 other software developers and designers. We would each own an equal number of shares. Any new team members would have to go through a…

I think this is marvelous idea.

Re: Ask HN: How do you earn your money?

#133
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hah you got me, I'm 36. I also agree that consulting can be a trap, but for the reason that it's not scalable. A consulting firm is only worth about as much as its employees, so there's no real exit strategy. I guess I'm kind of lucky that I don't live in a big city so can afford to dabble in it. But it does sting sometimes to not receive residual income for past work. Cool to hear about your earlier escapades. My bu…

FWIW, I enjoyed your game. I especially liked the way the day and night cycle shifted the colour palette. Made a lasting impression.

Thanks, that is nice to hear. Lots of custom 16 bit blitters made that happen. I made one that blended between (I think) 16 bit patterns to interpolate between two images, plus some RGB blending if I remember right. PowerPC had some wonderful functions for all of that but in the switch to Intel, computers were fast enough that I used a regular loop since it was waiting around for ram anyway. We got pretty far on an OpenGL port but ran into issues with needing to draw the scene in a handful of passes instead of piece by piece. My partner had the vision for artwork and special FX and I just made it happen on the back end.

Re: Ask HN: How do you earn your money?

#134
post #78

Currently contracting through oDesk. I tend to average about 25 billable hours per week, with the remainder of my time split between learning about technology trends and working on long term personal projects. This led to a six month stint last year as a contractor at a local business that is exploring startup approaches like Agile/Scrum, which was an overwhelmingly positive experience. I was also lucky enough to be…

Hey Zach, advice to you from an industry elder. From your comments, I would put you in your late 30s, young enough to be scrappy but experienced enough to be on a founding team. The only reason for doing is to gain industry domain experience. (Software doesnt count.) The domain can suggest startup possibilities. Consulting income is a trap, unless you make massive savings. Dont look back at what might have been. I wo…

Russell, why do you say consulting income is a trap? Is it because it doesn't scale?

Re: Ask HN: How do you earn your money?

#135
post #119

Currently contracting through oDesk. I tend to average about 25 billable hours per week, with the remainder of my time split between learning about technology trends and working on long term personal projects. This led to a six month stint last year as a contractor at a local business that is exploring startup approaches like Agile/Scrum, which was an overwhelmingly positive experience. I was also lucky enough to be…

Can you share some tips for new oDesk users? I registered on oDesk for 2 months already and although I'm fairly experienced (10 years), I got zero contact so far. I must miss some important thing to get noticed or contacted.

I apologize in advance for how long this got :-/

At first I was signed up on freelancer.com as well and did several ~$150 contracts where I could bid/get picked/do the work/get paid practically the same day, which helped my psyche. I also did a relatively large project on elance.com but unfortunately didn't get paid for it due to disputes over milestones (the customer kept adding to the to do list), which is what led me to the escrow on odesk.com. I did a few fixed rate contracts but found my time management skills were not exactly stellar so switched to hourly for a while and found some peace knowing I was getting paid for my time like a regular job. Once I got back in the swing of things, I tended to prefer fixed rate again for the freedom it provides.

For odesk.com, I put a couple of pics in my portfolio, got a decent score on a skills test, and had some credentials in my education and employment history. But ya, at first I was not getting any invites and was bidding on several contracts at once without any bites. On the surface, a lot of the bidders look very experienced and I just couldn’t see how to compete with them. I guess what changed is that I stumbled onto some contracts where the client was frustrated with the quality of previous work, and I took the plunge and cleaned up their apps for them. It was an eye opener because I saw the kinds of tradeoffs that are made under low budgets. It wasn’t that any individual aspect of the code was bad, but more that it was a hodgepodge of different approaches all mashed together, that broke the don’t repeat yourself (DRY) principal, had no separation of logic and interface, was full of memory leaks, just on and on. The code had been written overseas for a really low rate and so several people had been banging away on it just trying to get it done. It was kind of remarkable, in a way, but not the kind of code that could be easily reused. So it hit me that the reason a high hourly rate is worth it is that a client can either choose to pay a team to follow good coding practices (which costs time = money) or pay an experienced developer to do it and avoid the broken telephone game. There really is no free lunch, and I think that clients understand that before developers do. So eventually I threw up my hands, realized I couldn’t fight the laws of economics, and “reluctantly” raised my hourly rate. I tried $30/hr for quite a while because that’s the overtime rate for a typical $20/hr programming job in Idaho and I don’t think a contractor should bid below 1.5 times the salary they desire (due to down time etc). So your contracting rate will be some multiple of the going hourly rate in your location. I also stopped being anxious about it, because I knew what the work entailed, so I wrote my bids in a conversational tone, just saying roughly what would be involved and not making any huge promises, and even saying where complications might come up, allowing for contingiences. That worked pretty well and I started getting more hours in and receiving invites from clients that weren’t looking for bargain basement code. It was kind of weird though to be charging more but not seeing it in my bank account, and I was having a lot of lean months. I hadn’t really factored in the hours I spent mulling over the code in my subconscious. So I came to terms with the fact that I was having trouble getting in more than about 4-6 billable hours per day, even though I felt like I was working all of the time. So I went ahead and just accepted that I’d average 25 hours per week and raised my rate again to ~$50/hr to account for the research I inevitably did but wasn’t charging for directly. I found that it alleviated a lot of the dread I was feeling when I thought about getting started working each day. For me, it was never about the work, but battling my own tendency towards distraction and procrastination. That was the point where I started getting more interesting contracts that were actually a pleasure to work on. I had been in fight or flight mode for so long that when the survival instinct died down, coding seemed to feel like a natural thing to do again and it was much easier to get in the zone. It was like picking up a good book after not reading for a few years. It had never occurred to me that clients had been going through this exact scenario in reverse thousands of times around the world, had felt frustrated and arrived in a similar place.

I really wish someone could have told me all of this, but I probably wouldn’t have heard it anyway. And in fairness, I made a lot of mistakes, for example after my six month contract last year at a higher rate, I went back down to $30/hr thinking that I had to do that to get seen. It wasn’t the case at all though, and trying to beat the laws of physics just set me back again. So I went back to my current rate and things have been good. At some point I will probably raise my rate again because I’m noticing that the gun.io contracts are priced higher than I’ve been charging (probably due to location) and I need to plan for the future, having a family etc. Also writing this out now, it sounds a little out there, so I want to emphasize that it’s just the same programming any of us have been doing. I spend 80% of my time scouring the web for the answers, mostly on stack overflow, and 20% of my time actually typing. I normally accomplish one item on my todo list per day, maybe two or three if they are small. And I’ve come to terms with the fact that any estimate I make must be tripled, so that what I think will take two weeks will actually take six. That’s been a bit of a blessing in disguise though, because I know that to actually finish something in two weeks, it means I can’t write much code. It puts the emphasis on finding open source projects that do what’s needed, or wiring up the logic in Interface Builder (finding whatever run of the mill solution works with Apple’s human interface guidelines, instead of trying to code around the issue). Also I keep a large notes file, for example tips like “~/Library/MobileDevice/Provisioning Profiles” contains Xcode’s provisioning profiles, so when I’m using a client’s developer credentials I can trash mine and not spending hours trying to get things working that should already work. If you can get to a good setup and know that you can deliver, it makes it a lot easier to bid. So go ahead and try for some smaller/easier contracts at first and if you find you are finishing ahead of schedule, spend the extra time making it top notch for the client. Someone might hear about it through the grapevine and look you up. It helped me a lot to stop thinking about competing with other contractors, or even just satisfying the client, but instead imagine the end user and what they will get out of the work. I think that’s about it, but I wouldn’t want to leave out the fact that having a cool game in my profile and a few lets just say “interesting” blog posts probably helped as much as anything. Those are somewhat based on luck though and wouldn’t be much to talk about without the fundamentals. Also follow your nose a bit if you know someone in the business. I’m a bit isolated out here and I could have saved a lot of time if I lived in more of a tech city. If you do your homework and also put yourself out there, things will work out.

Re: Ask HN: How do you earn your money?

#137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's awesome to learn about worker co-ops. I was thinking about starting a software development or SAAS company where every person is a worker/owner, so it's good to know they already exist. Here's what I'd love to do if I ever started my own company: I start the company with 1 or 2 other software developers and designers. We would each own an equal number of shares. Any new team members would have to go through a…

If you are serious about this idea, contact me. (Chris at efficito dot com). I would love to help start such a business.

What country?

Re: Ask HN: How do you earn your money?

#138
post #57
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

can I ask you where you're from? There's plenty of work for good coders, you seem very delusional. Try to send some resume

Sorry, delusional about which part? In my experience, people are more likely to hire US/UK based workers for higher paying jobs than for example Indians or people from countries. Does that happen always ? No, of course not. I've had clients from a bunch of different countries. Hell, maybe I'm completely wrong - but that's how it seems to me. Maybe it's just me. I'm not excellent programmer, nor do I claim to be, mayb…

I think he may have meant disillusioned not delusional.

Re: Ask HN: How do you earn your money?

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are serious about this idea, contact me. (Chris at efficito dot com). I would love to help start such a business.

What country?

I am in Indonesia at present but if nothing else can help with ideas and experience.

The businesses I own are currently all on a coop model. I think subject matter is likely to be a larger limitation though than location.

Re: Ask HN: How do you earn your money?

#140
I've worked almost 15 years in various IT roles, building up my skills (technical and otherwise). In my spare time (when I had it), I would also dabble in side projects. Some made money, most didn't. Eventually a side project started taking off and is now providing a nice bonus. I still work full time for someone else, but I aim to have the flexibility to choose what I want to do now and not just work for the money.

This stuff takes time and a lot of effort. You can't just build an app and sell it for $19B overnight.

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