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Ask HN: Why no love for PHP?

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Re: Ask HN: Why no love for PHP?

#131

Post by chromatic »

encoderer wrote: post #89
jerf wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://osvdb.org/search?request=PHP http://osvdb.org/search?request=Python http://osvdb.org/search?request=Perl http://osvdb.org/search?request=Ruby "One of these things, is not like the others, one of these things is not the same..." No, there's nothing "mythical" about bad PHP security. At the point where there is a two order-of-magnitude difference between PHP and Python/Perl/Ruby, I stop even really caring about…

Ok.. nice way to leave logic at the door, but it's not just that PHP is more popular. It's that it's been around longer than Python and Ruby. That list goes back a decade for PHP. Anybody using PHP seriously in a production environment is also using Suhosin and PHP is secure enough at that point to just be a consideration and not a problem.

PHP's four years younger than Python and a year or two younger than Ruby. Age is no excuse for its security problems -- nor is the No True Scotsman fallacy sufficient to wave away its flaws.

Re: Ask HN: Why no love for PHP?

#132

Post by indiejade »

nuclear_eclipse wrote: post #130
indiejade wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there's not a lot of NEW going on in the PHP world There was an article on slashdot yesterday about PHP6. Here's one from IBM: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/opensource/library/os-php-... Not a whole lot of new, but something. I think PHP gets ignored sometimes because it is an older language, not the new and trendy thing.

> * I think PHP gets ignored sometimes because it is an older language...* For what it's worth, Python is four years older than PHP, and it still gets a good amount of attention on HN. Python just has more of the "inspiring language" atmosphere, while PHP has more of the "corporate, mundane" feel. And I'm an avid open source developer working on multiple PHP and Python projects...

All righty; I'll give you that. Try this logic: maybe because Yahoo! is all about PHP and Google is all about Python and Yahoo! is older than Google. :)

Re: Ask HN: Why no love for PHP?

#133

Post by derefr »

j_baker wrote: post #128
menloparkbum wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was thinking of artist in the traditional sense- some renaissance painter mixing pigments and material to come up with the perfect shade of red, for example. This is just a romantic myth. All the Renaissance painters anyone has heard of or seen in a museum employed tons of assistants. Nearly any contemporary artist who makes any sort of money whatsoever has assistants doing most of their work. Damien Hirst has 160…

They probably had to do all that stuff themselves before they were famous though.

Before they were famous, they were the assistants.

Re: Ask HN: Why no love for PHP?

#134

Post by lacker »

edw519 wrote: post #83
unexpected wrote: post #27

People who are really good at their jobs obsess about their tools- artists obsess over their paint, carpenters obsess over their power tools, cooks obsess over their knives. PHP is like buying a chef's knife at Wal-Mart. You can create a 5 star dish with it, it cuts perfectly fine, but it doesn't inspire the same passion that a Shun knife does. Most restaurants in fact, don't use fancy-knives, they use just regular k…

Great argument, nice analogy, makes a lot of sense, and I completely (and respectfully) disagree. Your analogy reminds me of the greatest cook ever, my grandmother. She used no technology whatsoever. All of her tools had been her mother's which were probably manufactured in the 1800s. She chopped everything by hand in a wooden bowl. (If anyone else helped her with the chopping, everyone at dinner could tell.) She nev…

I savor every byte

Nice line ;-) "Ahhh yeah that's a good 11001010."

Re: Ask HN: Why no love for PHP?

#135

Post by lincolnq »

rbanffy wrote: post #121
rbanffy wrote: post #53

PHP was a hack conceived long ago, in a time where there were no complex (as in "more than one page") web applications and little to no demand for them. It has the readability of Perl and the structural elegance of 70's BASIC. Need I say more?

Isn't it lovely when people can simply mod you down when they disagree with you instead of trying to debate?

Your comment wasn't worth responding to, because it was an obvious troll, designed to incite a strong emotional response from the reader. If you were intentionally trolling, you picked the wrong audience. If not, you should try to support your opinion with more facts and rational arguments.

Re: Ask HN: Why no love for PHP?

#136

Post by listic »

edw519 wrote: post #83
unexpected wrote: post #27

People who are really good at their jobs obsess about their tools- artists obsess over their paint, carpenters obsess over their power tools, cooks obsess over their knives. PHP is like buying a chef's knife at Wal-Mart. You can create a 5 star dish with it, it cuts perfectly fine, but it doesn't inspire the same passion that a Shun knife does. Most restaurants in fact, don't use fancy-knives, they use just regular k…

Great argument, nice analogy, makes a lot of sense, and I completely (and respectfully) disagree. Your analogy reminds me of the greatest cook ever, my grandmother. She used no technology whatsoever. All of her tools had been her mother's which were probably manufactured in the 1800s. She chopped everything by hand in a wooden bowl. (If anyone else helped her with the chopping, everyone at dinner could tell.) She nev…

But why 24 x 80, not bigger?

Re: Ask HN: Why no love for PHP?

#138

Post by JustAGeek »

jerf wrote: post #47
JustAGeek wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with more or less with what you said but a downside of PHP is not security vulnerabilities, that's really just a myth. I can't remember the last vulnerability which could be directly attributed to PHP as a language. Sure, there are plenty of apps containing holes but those are not caused by PHP but by not coding correctly, eg not checking input making SQL injections possible etc. Which might confirm what you…

http://osvdb.org/search?request=PHP http://osvdb.org/search?request=Python http://osvdb.org/search?request=Perl http://osvdb.org/search?request=Ruby "One of these things, is not like the others, one of these things is not the same..." No, there's nothing "mythical" about bad PHP security. At the point where there is a two order-of-magnitude difference between PHP and Python/Perl/Ruby, I stop even really caring about…

Well, all those bugs seem to be related to apps written in PHP but not related to PHP itself - other than at some places making it confusing for beginners to know what to use. And if there are many bugs in apps this is also correlated to the fact that there are a LOT of apps but not enough good developers... ;)

I like this quote about PHP: "HP is just this piece of shit that you just put together—put all the parts together—and you throw it against the wall and it fucking sticks." (Terry Chay)

Re: Ask HN: Why no love for PHP?

#139

Post by badger7 »

unexpected wrote: post #27

People who are really good at their jobs obsess about their tools- artists obsess over their paint, carpenters obsess over their power tools, cooks obsess over their knives. PHP is like buying a chef's knife at Wal-Mart. You can create a 5 star dish with it, it cuts perfectly fine, but it doesn't inspire the same passion that a Shun knife does. Most restaurants in fact, don't use fancy-knives, they use just regular k…

Splendidly put.

I'm a chef, and I don't want to talk about knives. I don't care that my knives are basic; taste my cooking. I don't care that your knives are wonderful; I want to taste your cooking.

There's a reason that taste tests are done blindfolded, you know - ugly but delicious trumps beautiful but foul, every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Re: Ask HN: Why no love for PHP?

#140

Post by shinyshiny »

badger7 wrote: post #139
unexpected wrote: post #27

People who are really good at their jobs obsess about their tools- artists obsess over their paint, carpenters obsess over their power tools, cooks obsess over their knives. PHP is like buying a chef's knife at Wal-Mart. You can create a 5 star dish with it, it cuts perfectly fine, but it doesn't inspire the same passion that a Shun knife does. Most restaurants in fact, don't use fancy-knives, they use just regular k…

Splendidly put. I'm a chef, and I don't want to talk about knives. I don't care that my knives are basic; taste my cooking. I don't care that your knives are wonderful; I want to taste your cooking. There's a reason that taste tests are done blindfolded, you know - ugly but delicious trumps beautiful but foul , every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

but presentation is a big part of cooking. good chefs can't just throw their delicious food on a plate they have to make it look good too.
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