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Ask HN: Is ageism in tech still a problem?

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Re: Ask HN: Is ageism in tech still a problem?

#131
post #7
post #4

A lot of it involves masking and blending in by the candidate You can easily find an older person ranting against the idea of using full stack javascript, unaware of the V8 changes while still having some valid criticisms But then wonder if their rejection is ageism, instead of the rant just one example

I think staying curious and keep learning regardless of your age is key. You don't really want to be stuck in whatever tech was popular during your 20's or 30's and ignore or reject whatever is new.

That's true for the hiree - but it's not an answer for the hiring group. How do they effectively discriminate for candidates who are apt in current tech, AND will stay current in upcoming years?

Re: Ask HN: Is ageism in tech still a problem?

#132

I think most of the ostensible age discrimination is explained by the tech industry's massive growth over the past 50 years (means more young people are hired than old people because they have the skills).

As well as overproduction of CS grads in the last 10/15 years. Much like law grads a generation earlier. Wonder who's next, MDs perhaps?..

Re: Ask HN: Is ageism in tech still a problem?

#133
The real threat to a senior IC, in my own experience, is losing their edge, especially in a large company. As they grow more senior, they will spend more time in meetings, writing more docs, aligning more teams, drawing more boxes, tossing around more terms, defining more product features, and talking to more customers. As time goes by, they gain more institutional knowledge and getting better at company dynamics. They know which VPs to trust. They know which squeaky wheels to oil, and which buttons to push. They do everything better, except designing or implementing a challenging system.

That is, the senior ICs start to resemble a strong product manager, or an effective director without a team. These are all good - until the company suddenly no longer needs them. Maybe their team has become a cost center. Maybe the project gets into maintenance mode. Or maybe the product has been so stable that the company does not even need more alignment. At that time, the ICs will find that all the institutional knowledge and so-called "leadership" is not that transferrable. And when they go out and interview for a new job, they find that they can't even sketch a solid design.

Sadly, I don't have a solution. There are exceptions. I guess it's natural that a senior engineer will gain breadth but also get distracted as they age. What they need is a different kind of depth. They can still be of value to a younger team if they are like a hard-science professor who depends on their PhD students to write papers, yet they can still advise the students as no one else. In industry, my role models are people like Michael Stonebreaker, who can still shape the architectures of modern databases in his 80s. Wernher von Braun of Saturn V rockets, who could come up with new rockets like no one else. Or Kelly Johnson of U-2, who could direct and unblock his engineers with ease. Or Marc Brooker of Amazon, who seems able to go deep into both database and distributed systems to keep coming up with amazing systems. But then, I'm not sure how many people can be talented as those engineers.

Or maybe another way is to get domain expertise, like how payment works, how insurance works, how accounting works, and etc?

Re: Ask HN: Is ageism in tech still a problem?

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the CEO is 28, it is the head where the fishrot starts. In The Days of Old, the folks running the corporation were almost always in their 50s. They might have been prejudiced towards folks my age (60s), but they didn't have issues with hiring what are now considered "older" folks (40s and 50s), with the only issue being cost (they might be ageist, simply for cost reasons). The prejudice from younger folks is cul…

Thats why, me at 40`s, now am I working in a german auto industry where they still got more traditional views and p promote people with time inside the company. Hip companies dont hire me, maybe some tech consultants, that would not be considered cool, like accenture or IBM. A few years ago I was one of the first people in my country tomigrate my company android app to Kotlin, this helped me land in the app developme…

I worked for a Japanese corporation, for the majority of my career.

They have "reverse ageism." There's some levels that you can't reach, until you are a certain age.

I worked with older people that would have a lot of folks around here, drooling. That company hired some of the best in the world.

Re: Ask HN: Is ageism in tech still a problem?

#135

I am a software engineer in his 50s, with stints in big tech, big bank and fintech with domain expertise in payments, risk, performance engineering, and data. In addition I have led global teams of hundreds of engineers with outcomes that have transformed multiple Fortune 500. I have been unemployed for a year and a half with no light at the end of the tunnel. Most of my network of similarly older professionals and C…

One of the _many_ reasons job statistics of all kinds is completely useless. According to these numbers you (and I as I was looking for a job for 1.5 years myself recently) are happily retired (according to analysis of employment figures that I read from time to time). Hence, "nobody wants to work" and all that.

Re: Ask HN: Is ageism in tech still a problem?

#136

I am a software engineer in his 50s, with stints in big tech, big bank and fintech with domain expertise in payments, risk, performance engineering, and data. In addition I have led global teams of hundreds of engineers with outcomes that have transformed multiple Fortune 500. I have been unemployed for a year and a half with no light at the end of the tunnel. Most of my network of similarly older professionals and C…

As an engineer also in his 50s, I can relate, based on one concept: "wanting to work" versus "needing to work". I'm definitely not rich, but I could probably retire if I wanted to. I just don't want to. I want to work; I enjoy it. Many of my friends have retired, and they all seem bored to me. However, many/most people need to work to pay the rent, put kids through college, etc. I never really grasped this concept wh…

Have a good friend, a 68yo guy, with grown-up kids (as in having their own families, houses, careers, etc), just happily hacking away in SQL, Python, building dashboards in PowerBI, learning AWS and bunch of other stuff, as a consultant. He says he'd be bored out of his mind just sitting at home.

Who says you can't have role models in your 50s? :)

Re: Ask HN: Is ageism in tech still a problem?

#137

>I launched a job board [...] Weird, it says there your wife did.

At the time I was an employee. They didn't like people launching side-projects, so, I involved my wife in the process. She's PR, so, she sent it to the media. I did the rest, being developing, contacting companies and talking to over 40s.

Thanks for the explanation.

I know it doesn't matter to the topic at had, but I actually went on and read all about your project, and that caught my attention. :)

Re: Ask HN: Is ageism in tech still a problem?

#138
post #59

IMO, it depends. I’ve worked with hundreds of startups over the last 20 years. The most significant trend I’ve seen is cultural cohesion. Some startups have a young, energetic culture. Some have an experienced, veteran culture. Some have a quirky, trendy culture. But overall many companies seem to value and attract more of the same culture they already have in place. So to a degree, I’d say yes ageism exists in certa…

> I’ve worked with hundreds of startups over the last 20 years. That's averaging 5 startups every year. How can you get good experience, or even truly understand a business, if you're averaging just around two months at a company or multiple companies in the same period?

He said "worked with" not "worked at." Likely as a contractor. And if so it's not uncommon for some projects to be very short while others might take 10-20% of your time for 2-3 years. Plenty of time to gather domain knowledge especially if clients are clustered in the same industry.

Re: Ask HN: Is ageism in tech still a problem?

#139
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I call this "Wearing your uniform." You need to look like you are a person who would be doing the job. You wouldn't hire a gardner with smooth hands, clean shoes, and no dirt under their nails would you? Car mechanics, you can see it in their hands, and the way they act around cars. Every profession has its tells, from what we wear, to our physical traits etc. After a while, you know if someone adds up or not. But pa…

Don't understand what physical appearance has to do with tech.

https://folklore.org/Gobble_Gobble_Gobble.html?sort=date

Re: Ask HN: Is ageism in tech still a problem?

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recently, I've had a co-worker be "okay" with alerts in the middle of the night. I refused because I have to drive my child to school at 7.30am.

If your kids school is more important than your job is, that only means your job is extremely unimportant. Like my job. Your kid is better off not going to school for a day, or arriving late. They're not doing anything important in school. Depending on company, maybe they need to hire people to do important things and have responsibility for important things. Somebody who would prioritize things like driving their ki…

Isn't it usually the other way around? The less important you are to the company, the more rigid your hours are. If you actually matter to the company, you probably get flexible hours and the ability to take leave on a short notice, as they stand to lose more if you quit.
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