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Ask HN: Any jobs that don't force you to always be advancing career wise?

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Re: Ask HN: Any jobs that don't force you to always be advancing career wise?

#131

Post by mrcsharp »

pelagicAustral wrote: post #36

Get the same job working for government. Work stability in government is unparalleled, and there is so much cruft and technical debt that you will literally spend up until your last breath fixing legacy code and trying to get people off ancient software systems. You will stagnate, and nobody will give a shit. People will come and go next to you, but you will be stable through the ages, like a pillar in an ancient Rom…

This basically shows why DOGE is a thing. This sort of attitude is why governments are slow to achieve anything, why any government contract ends up over budget, etc...

I await your downvotes.

Re: Ask HN: Any jobs that don't force you to always be advancing career wise?

#132

Post by spwa4 »

ordx wrote: post #17

Try consulting. Once your reach Senior Consultant level it's pretty much the end of the path for ICs.

So that brings a question. Let's say you're consultant (and the only senior consultants where I work are salesmen), and you're 42. How do you advance while remaining technical? I don't mind very occasional sales efforts, but not constantly.

Re: Ask HN: Any jobs that don't force you to always be advancing career wise?

#133

Post by spwa4 »

bradlys wrote: post #69

It's not about advancing. You're working in a stack ranked world where 2/3+ of your peers are on H1B visas are at risk of being deported (plus that's the culture of their home country). You could do the same job but just live in the EU and you'd be less likely to experience these woes.

You neglect to mention "for 30% of the pay". And that's in western Europe. Except perhaps Luxembourg, where you might actually find 50% of US pay.

Re: Ask HN: Any jobs that don't force you to always be advancing career wise?

#134

Post by kweingar »

mrcsharp wrote: post #131
pelagicAustral wrote: post #36

Get the same job working for government. Work stability in government is unparalleled, and there is so much cruft and technical debt that you will literally spend up until your last breath fixing legacy code and trying to get people off ancient software systems. You will stagnate, and nobody will give a shit. People will come and go next to you, but you will be stable through the ages, like a pillar in an ancient Rom…

This basically shows why DOGE is a thing. This sort of attitude is why governments are slow to achieve anything, why any government contract ends up over budget, etc... I await your downvotes.

If the government was a dynamic work environment, it would burn just as much money. But instead of saying "the project went over budget", they'd say "we executed a strategic pivot."

Instead of employees "stagnating", employees would launch all sorts of initiatives and then abandon them after getting promoted.

Instead of maintaining legacy systems for decades, teams would turn down systems so that employees can work on shinier greenfield projects, leaving users in the lurch.

I do not oppose government efficiency. I support reforms to identify and eliminate waste in government. Unfortunately that's not what DOGE is doing.

Re: Ask HN: Any jobs that don't force you to always be advancing career wise?

#135

Post by pelagicAustral »

mrcsharp wrote: post #131
pelagicAustral wrote: post #36

Get the same job working for government. Work stability in government is unparalleled, and there is so much cruft and technical debt that you will literally spend up until your last breath fixing legacy code and trying to get people off ancient software systems. You will stagnate, and nobody will give a shit. People will come and go next to you, but you will be stable through the ages, like a pillar in an ancient Rom…

This basically shows why DOGE is a thing. This sort of attitude is why governments are slow to achieve anything, why any government contract ends up over budget, etc... I await your downvotes.

Not every software project needs the mentality you want to stamp on it. Most software in the world is boring, stagnant, legacy code. Maybe it was 'hip' one time, no one cares... that's the reason we have tons of COBOL still running around...

I am not here to tell you what we SHOULD do. Not to tell you who SHOULD get a job. My point is to tell you that some people, in this crazy world, want to do some work, and some of that work is not fancy, and for that they get a special place in the current environment.

Re: Ask HN: Any jobs that don't force you to always be advancing career wise?

#136

Post by oneoverten »

Yes, many companies will cap out on the advancement ladder so that at that point there's no requirement to advance further formally. Any company doing up or out indefinitely will obviously just drop valuable resources. You can still advance in pay etc.

Re: Ask HN: Any jobs that don't force you to always be advancing career wise?

#137

Post by KolenCh »

billy99k wrote: post #3

One option is to find a job that has legacy work. A good place to look is a non-tech company. IE: a company that might use tech to run the business (which you will support), but tech isn't their main product. These companies tend be using older software because they aren't really required to have the latest and greatest.

ie is abbreviated Latin and usually written as i.e. I know that mobile and auto correct can make it difficult, but IE must be deliberate upper cased. It is the worst because no matter how ancient it is, it still stands for internet explorer, not id est.

Re: Ask HN: Any jobs that don't force you to always be advancing career wise?

#138

Post by mrcsharp »

kweingar wrote: post #134
mrcsharp wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This basically shows why DOGE is a thing. This sort of attitude is why governments are slow to achieve anything, why any government contract ends up over budget, etc... I await your downvotes.

If the government was a dynamic work environment, it would burn just as much money. But instead of saying "the project went over budget", they'd say "we executed a strategic pivot." Instead of employees "stagnating", employees would launch all sorts of initiatives and then abandon them after getting promoted. Instead of maintaining legacy systems for decades, teams would turn down systems so that employees can work o…

> But instead of saying "the project went over budget", they'd say "we executed a strategic pivot."

Yeah, politicians already do this. They use different words but to the same effect.

I am not going to pretend I have the ultimate solution to all of this, but the idea that government employees get to sit there, do bare minimum for the entirety of their careers, and without any desire to improve anything for the sake of the people they serve (because clearly they forgot they work for the citizens of the country in which said government operates) is just so wrong. Maybe we deserve to live in mediocrity.

You can, at least, vote out a congress, house, or a parliament member if they are mediocre and not doing much (doesn't always happen but the option exists). Government employees are un-elected (technically) and get to spend their entire life in a "stable" job regardless of their performance. Is this status quo actually good for the country?

Re: Ask HN: Any jobs that don't force you to always be advancing career wise?

#139

Post by mrcsharp »

pelagicAustral wrote: post #135
mrcsharp wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This basically shows why DOGE is a thing. This sort of attitude is why governments are slow to achieve anything, why any government contract ends up over budget, etc... I await your downvotes.

Not every software project needs the mentality you want to stamp on it. Most software in the world is boring, stagnant, legacy code. Maybe it was 'hip' one time, no one cares... that's the reason we have tons of COBOL still running around... I am not here to tell you what we SHOULD do. Not to tell you who SHOULD get a job. My point is to tell you that some people, in this crazy world, want to do some work, and some o…

> My point is to tell you that some people, in this crazy world, want to do some work, and some of that work is not fancy, and for that they get a special place in the current environment.

And this is fine. It is good to recognize this and build around it. My comment and my annoyance is with the idea that the government is a good place to act as a, and I mean no offense, dumping ground for such people.

The reputation of government jobs being very stable attracts such people and they then form the majority and things stagnates and nothing improves because there is no will.

To be clear, I am not saying every government department should be a copy of google in how they work and hire. But a balance needs to be struck between keeping government departments stable and striving to trim the fat and improve.

Re: Ask HN: Any jobs that don't force you to always be advancing career wise?

#140

Post by archagon »

mrcsharp wrote: post #139
pelagicAustral wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not every software project needs the mentality you want to stamp on it. Most software in the world is boring, stagnant, legacy code. Maybe it was 'hip' one time, no one cares... that's the reason we have tons of COBOL still running around... I am not here to tell you what we SHOULD do. Not to tell you who SHOULD get a job. My point is to tell you that some people, in this crazy world, want to do some work, and some o…

> My point is to tell you that some people, in this crazy world, want to do some work, and some of that work is not fancy, and for that they get a special place in the current environment. And this is fine. It is good to recognize this and build around it. My comment and my annoyance is with the idea that the government is a good place to act as a, and I mean no offense, dumping ground for such people. The reputation…

> The reputation of government jobs being very stable attracts such people and they then form the majority and things stagnates and nothing improves because there is no will.

This is substantiated entirely by feels. Do you actually know any government workers?

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