I can confirm - in the past three weeks, I requested a $5K raise in salary on offer and it was accepted in <20 seconds by hiring manager. This has a roughly $100K NPV. This is identical to the predictions in patio11's original piece.
Ask HN: Is patio11's salary negotiation guide relevant in today's market?
131–140 of 195 posts
Re: Ask HN: Is patio11's salary negotiation guide relevant in today's market?
#132Earlier quoted context omitted.
Unless we’re in a situation where violence concludes every interaction, “negotiated agreement” is the presumed conclusion of every interaction. I declined this job offer because I had BATNA. I declined this job offer because I had a better option. I negotiated more PTO because I had a BATNA. I negotiated more PTO because I had a better alternative.
It's an educational concept. Not something you'd use in a sentence like that. I think you're being a pendent.
Sure, but that’s why I originally replied to brtkdotse, since their comment did use it in a sentence like that.
Re: Ask HN: Is patio11's salary negotiation guide relevant in today's market?
#133Earlier quoted context omitted.
But see - that's part of "negotiation" too - you need to make them want you before you hit them with higher demands. If you're up-front you might not even get the interview.
If I know what will make me leave my current job, it's not worth my time to "get the interview" if they won't give me that amount. Also, as a hiring manager, the one way people found themselves with me saying "That's great, go screw" was when it was clear they were playing us comp-wise by lowballing us to get their foot in the door & then raising the bar once the offer came. That's deceptive, and a character flaw I d…
> when it was clear they were playing us comp-wise by lowballing us to get their foot in the door & then raising the bar once the offer came.
Isn’t this just the mirror of a relatively common business practise? At least among smaller companies (maybe non US)
Re: Ask HN: Is patio11's salary negotiation guide relevant in today's market?
#134I am a generalist. Not once in my twenty years of experience have I met anyone like me. I can write firmware just as well as I can design and implement UX and UI. Heck, I can design circuits or even products in fusion 360. Where are all these so called generalists? If you mean “fullstack”, that is only a small fraction of software, and the bar has lowered a lot since JavaScript has become ubiquitous (so you only need…
I can do all these things too, and learn more, but without recent professional experience on the resume, it’s not generally known or believed. (Part of the problem is that interviewers default to disbelief these days.) No one is knocking on my door looking for generalists, and a large majority of job listings are short-sighted on specifics. i.e. no one cares about my computer architecture, QA, or sysad chops.
The bulk of my nest egg comes from equity. As you grow you find that the more of a generalist you are the smaller a company you should be at to maximize your impact.
As a company grows the roles get pigeonholed further and further, diminishing the value of your generalist skillset. The main antidote to this is to be higher up in the org, but that usually doesn’t happen organically over a generalist career (you have to create those jobs for yourself).
Re: Ask HN: Is patio11's salary negotiation guide relevant in today's market?
#135Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Do people negotiate net? Nobody negotiates net. It's not even practical. Your tax situation will depend of the other revenues you might receive on top of your wages and the deductions you are eligible to and your employer doesn't have to know about that.
Nobody negotiates net, but companies will keep in mind an employee's lowest possible tax bracket given their gross (and therefore their highest possible net ) when determining the cost:benefit of offering marginal "material compensation" increases (vs other components of total compensation) — both during initial negotiation, and when trying to design later incentives. Which is to say, if you're making USD$100k/yr wor…
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Re: Ask HN: Is patio11's salary negotiation guide relevant in today's market?
#136I usually did this in the past, and it has worked every time so far (four times). Not in the US, this from Switzerland. I think of a number I want to earn in the new job. For example, if I would currently make 100k, I say I currently make 115k in my current role, and then they offer 120k. I accept, done. I did this after a bad experience. Made-up numbers. They offer me 80k, I already make 90k, I say I already make mo…
Lying about previous salary is not illegal in the U.S. but it will probably cause you to lose your offer if the employer finds out (and there are ways they can check it). And there’s no reason to do it. Negotiation is about what you will bring to the new company, and how much that is worth to them. Your old salary is irrelevant. If you want 110k just say that. If they ask what you made before, you can say something l…
They never found out or cared or followed up on it in any way possible.
I think it works so well because it is not a negotiation. Just stating my fake current number and they can make up their number.
Re: Ask HN: Is patio11's salary negotiation guide relevant in today's market?
#137Ok yes this guide is fine, a lot of things are up for negotiation, and I think it’s a lot more widely known these days to negotiate for stuff. But man, a lot of the people out there absolutely still do not grok negotiating. They know it’s something you’re supposed to do, but they will try and negotiate things that are not negotiable (like making it a hard ask for extra contributions per paycheck for healthcare to mat…
But also, some companies are not willing to negotiate on anything and attempting to negotiate often screws you over.
Re: Ask HN: Is patio11's salary negotiation guide relevant in today's market?
#138Earlier quoted context omitted.
> But man, a lot of the people out there absolutely still do not grok negotiating. Unless you have some kind of very unique skill or you have other offers and the company really, really wants you, how exactly are you supposed to negotiate? Every comp negotiation I've ever had with a company has gone kind of like this: [Company]: Here's your offer for $X. [Me]: I'd like $Y. [Company]: Your offer is for $X. [Me]: Well,…
Maybe instead of: > [Me]: I’d like $Y You could try: > [Me]: That matches my base salary at the moment but my current employer gives me healthcare and a car allowance so I would be out of pocket if I moved from my current job. In addition I currently am eligible for a 10% bonus. Would you consider an additional $5k/yr to cover some of this? I would love to move… although I can’t justify a pay cut, but think this is a…
[Company]: We don't care. Your offer is for $X. Are you interested or not?
Re: Ask HN: Is patio11's salary negotiation guide relevant in today's market?
#139Ok yes this guide is fine, a lot of things are up for negotiation, and I think it’s a lot more widely known these days to negotiate for stuff. But man, a lot of the people out there absolutely still do not grok negotiating. They know it’s something you’re supposed to do, but they will try and negotiate things that are not negotiable (like making it a hard ask for extra contributions per paycheck for healthcare to mat…
> But man, a lot of the people out there absolutely still do not grok negotiating. Unless you have some kind of very unique skill or you have other offers and the company really, really wants you, how exactly are you supposed to negotiate? Every comp negotiation I've ever had with a company has gone kind of like this: [Company]: Here's your offer for $X. [Me]: I'd like $Y. [Company]: Your offer is for $X. [Me]: Well,…
This, I've never worked for a company where negotiation was an option. The current company has a team that's part of HR that does salary stuff and they pretty much have final say on the offer that's a take it or leave it deal. You can maybe push back once through your recruiter asking them to reconsider based on years of experience or something, but only really if they somehow didn't have that information initially.
Re: Ask HN: Is patio11's salary negotiation guide relevant in today's market?
#140Earlier quoted context omitted.
> But man, a lot of the people out there absolutely still do not grok negotiating. Unless you have some kind of very unique skill or you have other offers and the company really, really wants you, how exactly are you supposed to negotiate? Every comp negotiation I've ever had with a company has gone kind of like this: [Company]: Here's your offer for $X. [Me]: I'd like $Y. [Company]: Your offer is for $X. [Me]: Well,…
The magic incantation is competing offer . If they know you have alternatives, they are much more likely to negotiate. In fact the modern version of this guide is try to get several offers and negotiate them against each other (not you versus the company). Might be more difficult in the current market.
>The magic incantation is competing offer.
Depends on the company. If you were applying where I work and tried to use a competing offer to get a better offer, they'd just suggest you go with the other offer.