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Ask HN: How many of you Apple developers still use Objective C?

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Re: Ask HN: How many of you Apple developers still use Objective C?

#131

Post by Grustaf »

lapcat wrote: post #17

I use Objective-C exclusively (no Swift) in my App Store apps. I wrote a Swift app for a hobby/free project a few years ago and regretted it. They changed the language and deprecated some of my code, which isn't easily replaceable without a significant rewrite. The project now compiles only in Swift 4 and will die when Swift 4 support is removed from Xcode. I see no reason to use Swift. The compiler is slower and bug…

I started using Swift right away in 2014 and worked on several large projects written in Swift 2, 3, 4. Of the three or four large migrations I had to perform, the worst one still took less than a day - unless your Swift 4 project is enormous, you should be able to migrate it to Swift 5 before lunch time, the differences are really minimal.

Surely it's a good thing that a young language evolves, you can't improve without changing. And Apple were very clear about the fact that there would be breaking changes.

You can of course insist on using Objective C if you prefer it, but that closes the door to most of the new APIs that are being added by Apple, which seems like a very steep price to pay for the privilege of using a legacy language.

Re: Ask HN: How many of you Apple developers still use Objective C?

#132

Post by Grustaf »

flippy_flops wrote: post #46
lapcat wrote: post #17

I use Objective-C exclusively (no Swift) in my App Store apps. I wrote a Swift app for a hobby/free project a few years ago and regretted it. They changed the language and deprecated some of my code, which isn't easily replaceable without a significant rewrite. The project now compiles only in Swift 4 and will die when Swift 4 support is removed from Xcode. I see no reason to use Swift. The compiler is slower and bug…

After years of obj-c I wrote a rather larger app on Swift 1.1. I'll never forget the pain of upgrading to each new version of Swift. And my god, the pain of early swift string manipulation. 100% technical debt annually.

Honest question: what exactly did you expect when adopting a brand new language? Apple were explicit that they would make breaking changes. Besides, would you rather be stuck with Swift 1 forever? It was pretty meagre in retrospect.

Re: Ask HN: How many of you Apple developers still use Objective C?

#133

Post by Grustaf »

dinkblam wrote: post #42
lapcat wrote: post #17

I use Objective-C exclusively (no Swift) in my App Store apps. I wrote a Swift app for a hobby/free project a few years ago and regretted it. They changed the language and deprecated some of my code, which isn't easily replaceable without a significant rewrite. The project now compiles only in Swift 4 and will die when Swift 4 support is removed from Xcode. I see no reason to use Swift. The compiler is slower and bug…

absolutely the same here. the problem with Swift is that it is a systems programming language and not an app-development language. far to cumbersome, complicated and unproductive for writing apps.

This is objectively false. It's first and foremost an app development language. In fact this is a common complaint, that Apple pushes too many features that are specific to app development and now SwiftUI.

Re: Ask HN: How many of you Apple developers still use Objective C?

#134

Post by lukeh »

ctroein89 wrote: post #73

We still default to Objective-C in our SDK. We still support iOS 11, and I don't think we've been bothered enough by Objective-C to check which versions of Swift can be used on the versions of iOS that we support (I last checked a couple of years ago when we supported iOS 8, where the compatibility matrix was a problem for us). However, the examples are in Swift, and we're using Swift wherever the language doesn't ma…

Interestingly the dot syntax was proposed and I believe even implemented after Apple acquired NeXT, but it never shipped.

Re: Ask HN: How many of you Apple developers still use Objective C?

#135

Post by lapcat »

Grustaf wrote: post #131
lapcat wrote: post #17

I use Objective-C exclusively (no Swift) in my App Store apps. I wrote a Swift app for a hobby/free project a few years ago and regretted it. They changed the language and deprecated some of my code, which isn't easily replaceable without a significant rewrite. The project now compiles only in Swift 4 and will die when Swift 4 support is removed from Xcode. I see no reason to use Swift. The compiler is slower and bug…

I started using Swift right away in 2014 and worked on several large projects written in Swift 2, 3, 4. Of the three or four large migrations I had to perform, the worst one still took less than a day - unless your Swift 4 project is enormous, you should be able to migrate it to Swift 5 before lunch time, the differences are really minimal. Surely it's a good thing that a young language evolves, you can't improve wit…

Me, knowing my own code: "isn't easily replaceable without a significant rewrite"

You, knowing absolutely nothing about my code: "you should be able to migrate it to Swift 5 before lunch time"

(In this respect, yours is such a sterotypical HN comment. "I could build [whatever] over a weekend.")

Moreover, even if your baseless, overconfident assertion were true, it's now about 6 hours until lunch time, and I'd rather not waste that time on a free hobby project just to make the damn Swift compiler happy.

> that closes the door to most of the new APIs that are being added by Apple, which seems like a very steep price to pay

I haven't needed anything that requires Swift, so there's been no price paid. I'm doing great. No problems! Swift proponents seem to have to tell themselves that I'm suffering in some way by continuing to use Objective-C, but I'm not suffering at all.

Regardless of language, I usually avoid new Apple API, because it tends to be half-baked and buggy.

Re: Ask HN: How many of you Apple developers still use Objective C?

#136

Post by lapcat »

Grustaf wrote: post #130
cc101 wrote: post #50

I've been programming for 56 years. Over that time if I had changed languages without a compelling reason, it would have been a huge waste of time, energy, and peace of mind. I'll stick with objC until I am compelled by practical reasons to change.

Isn't the fact that the platform vendor very clearly promotes Swift and makes most new APIs swift only a "practical reason"?

> Isn't the fact that the platform vendor very clearly promotes Swift

No, the platform vendor promotes a lot of shit.

I remember when they were heavily pushing Objective-C Garbage Collection. The fools who adopted it got burned when Apple removed GC entirely, killing their apps. I'm not suggesting that Apple will remove Swift, but it's a mistake to listen to Apple's hype and what Apple says. Their PR is not trustworthy. Make your own decisions.

Re: Ask HN: How many of you Apple developers still use Objective C?

#137

Post by lapcat »

lukeh wrote: post #134
ctroein89 wrote: post #73

We still default to Objective-C in our SDK. We still support iOS 11, and I don't think we've been bothered enough by Objective-C to check which versions of Swift can be used on the versions of iOS that we support (I last checked a couple of years ago when we supported iOS 8, where the compatibility matrix was a problem for us). However, the examples are in Swift, and we're using Swift wherever the language doesn't ma…

Interestingly the dot syntax was proposed and I believe even implemented after Apple acquired NeXT, but it never shipped.

Objective-C has dot syntax. It shipped.

Re: Ask HN: How many of you Apple developers still use Objective C?

#139

Post by cc101 »

Grustaf wrote: post #130
cc101 wrote: post #50

I've been programming for 56 years. Over that time if I had changed languages without a compelling reason, it would have been a huge waste of time, energy, and peace of mind. I'll stick with objC until I am compelled by practical reasons to change.

Isn't the fact that the platform vendor very clearly promotes Swift and makes most new APIs swift only a "practical reason"?

Practical means I can't proceed without changing languages. As long as I can proceed with objC, I will.

Re: Ask HN: How many of you Apple developers still use Objective C?

#140

Post by Apocryphon »

lawgimenez wrote: post #106
lapcat wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ben, don't play coy and pretend you weren't trollling when it's 100% clear now that you're trolling, and everyone can see that. I'm done here.

Just figured that dude you respond to is the one who created Halide camera. Not expecting him of a troll type, until today.

He's very active on social media.
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