Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Would You Work for Elon?

news.ycombinator.com

131–140 of 258 posts

Re: Ask HN: Would You Work for Elon?

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sasha solomon is legendarily competent. I've never even worked with her but she's one of the handful of engineers I know by reputation because everyone I work with who has worked with her is awestruck by how good at her job she is. "cringing junior engineer" indeed.

https://github.com/sachee 7 contribs in the last year. 16 in 2021 9 in 2020 6 in 2019. I am awestruck indeed.

Your measurement for talent is GitHub commits?

Do private projects not exist in your version of the world?

Re: Ask HN: Would You Work for Elon?

#132
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This ^^^ My answer to this question would have been a VERY weak "Yes" before the Twitter disaster. Now that we're seeing the true Elon alongside real engineer feedback, it's a HARD no.

You don't know anything about this guy, his employment history, if was underperforming in the past, etc. You read yet another hit piece on Elon because he's taking out the trash at Twitter and all of a sudden this one example has TOTALLY changed your opinion. You are being manipulated.

> You don't know anything about this guy, his employment history, if was underperforming in the past, etc.

I don't, but then given Elon has been CEO for all of 2 weeks—neither does he.

> You are being manipulated.

As are you.

Re: Ask HN: Would You Work for Elon?

#134
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SpaceX is a major success for him. Musk’s introduction to Tesla was being amazed by a working prototype with awesome acceleration. He took over Tesla when it already had a viable product and business strategy. The company started July 1 2003 and Musk’s early contribution was an early funding round and a board seat. He get’s to call himself a founder based on a lawsuit in 2009 and kicking the actual founders out.

OK, and then he proceeded to turn that fledgling entity into a massive industry-launching company. This is enough to be considered a business genius. Even if Tesla fails, which seems unlikely given their pile of cash and very popular cars, he has already succeeded in his stated goal of getting the switch to electric cars started.

The EV transition is all about improvements in battery technology which Tesla had nothing to do with.

A big chunk of Tesla’s early revenue was selling drivetrains to over EV companies. The transition was real and Tesla successfully road the wave, props to a successfully executed business strategy but technology wise it really didn’t change much.

People talk about the EV1, but the Toyota RAV4 EV was produced from 1997–2003, and then 2012–2014 the second version was even a collaboration with Tesla. Where it failed was not targeting the sports car market. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4_EV

Re: Ask HN: Would You Work for Elon?

#135
If you want to work for a narcissistic sociopath, you need to think like one - which explains why there are always some people who don't mind him.

That is, you should have something to gain from being seen and used as a tool and not care about the consequences of enabling the success of such leaders or businesses, respectively.

Working in small teams with talented people focused on a goal while always having the ear of someone in charge is not unique to Elon. He himself has just had the means both in talent and financially to recognize the needs of a market where the established supply was unwilling to give up its control.

Re: Ask HN: Would You Work for Elon?

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm curious what this means to you In short, it means that doing things better (e.g. making a piece of software faster) for the sake of things being done better is praised, not tolerated, as is the case in the many "let's just ship it, we'll fix it later" software companies. > when I see people from inside Twitter correct him on Twitter, with specific technical statements describing what's going on—and then he fire…

How can you characterize Twitter's current modus operandi under Musk as anything but "let's just ship it, we'll fix it later"? They're on iteration 5 or 6 of the checkmarks within the last week.

I have no reliable information about the current modus operandi under Musk, nor about modus operandi of any of his companies. I just have a vague feeling derived from the random information about his companies and employees I've read over the years.

It's very possible that it's just smoke and mirrors, but if I were given an offer, I'd at least try it for a while. If it's true, I gain a lot - if it's false, I gain a useful reference in my CV.

Re: Ask HN: Would You Work for Elon?

#137

His management style is not the worst thing about the guy. If all the legends about him were true (superhuman BS detector, genius level IQ, laser sharp focus) I'd be happy to be part of the team. Unfortunately, I think his main talent is the uncanny ability to overhype himself. He is lucky that a side effect of this ability helped him hire and motivate really good engineers. Thay might not be sufficient in the long r…

I don’t get what people mean by this. I have mixed feelings about the guy, but vaporware? Are the rockets not real? Are the cars and solar panels and tunnels and Paypal not real? Of course he didn’t single-handedly do this. Of course other engineers were invaluable in the process. But he forced Tesla and SpaceX into existence when everyone thought it was guaranteed to fail. We saw people trying with electric cars and…

I think what could potentially be vapor is the money in the valuations. In two years, Tesla went from 75billion market cap to 1 trillion, in the middle of a pandemic. How can a car company, of any kind, suddenly be delivering 925 billion dollars more value to the world. Tesla is one of the biggest car manufacturers by market cap, yet almost every other car company is out-producing them by a landslide, and even as industrial conglomerates they're valued at much less than Tesla which is practically quaint by comparison to say, Toyota's operations.

So valuation comes from speculation of course, but what are people speculating will happen? If Toyota, the biggest car manufacturer in the world, is valued less than Tesla is now, then the end goal of Tesla matching or besting Toyota's operations should see it's real value be... much less than it currently is.

Now incumbent manufacturers are delivering EVs and in brands, form-factors and levels of quality more people can care about, I just don't see how Tesla is differentiated in a way that even remotely justifies it's valuation.

Re: Ask HN: Would You Work for Elon?

#138
post #54

If I believed in the product we were building and that it was going to be a great product, then of course. Elon Musk actually makes people excited for the future. He hasn't delivered on everything but he has delivered some pretty massive things that I don't think anyone else alive today could have. Or even would have. He's an extreme optimist and working for a better future.

I can’t help but feel this is just a form of propaganda or self hype now. Elon’s latest interest always becomes “incredibly important for humanity” and using that to justify poor working conditions and lower pay is horribly convenient to his bottom line.

Re: Ask HN: Would You Work for Elon?

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://github.com/sachee 7 contribs in the last year. 16 in 2021 9 in 2020 6 in 2019. I am awestruck indeed.

Your measurement for talent is GitHub commits? Do private projects not exist in your version of the world?

Its a better metric than "I've never worked with her but i hear shes great"

Re: Ask HN: Would You Work for Elon?

#140
post #64

Considering that Elon puts a lot of focus on ability and skill over formalities and organizations, and that he believes that small team of highly-skilled highly-motivated people can often (always?) out-perform large teams of moderately-skilled moderately-motivated people, I'd say yes. I find a lot of joy in working on challenging problems without having to deal with bureaucracy bullshit. I have a feeling that Elon li…

> Elon puts a lot of focus on ability and skill over formalities and organizations I'm curious what this means to you, because when I see people from inside Twitter correct him on Twitter, with specific technical statements describing what's going on—and then he fires them—that seems like formalities way outranking ability and skill.

"I'm curious what this means to you, because when I see people from inside Twitter correct him on Twitter, with specific technical statements describing what's going on—and then he fires them—that seems like formalities way outranking ability and skill."

I'm curious... do you not understand why this person was fired?

If I publicly corrected my CEO, I would expect to be fired. I do not work for Elon, and I make this statement independent of whoever I happen to be working for right now. Being a bit arrogant about it didn't help, but it wouldn't have helped to publicly and humbly correct the CEO.

Moreover, it would not just be because the CEO had his precious fee fees hurt and he was lashing out in anger. There are perfectly sensible business reasons why it is an unacceptable risk to have someone running around publicly "correcting" the CEO while having a position within the organization. There are even legal reasons, with regard to what public statements made by an employee can legally commit the company too, and the kinds of ammunition it can hand to any future lawsuits. (Making public statements like this is not exactly like taking the stand in your own trial without a lawyer, but it's not entirely dissimilar from it either!) There is no way my value to the company, no matter how good I am, could overcome the business risks associated with such a loose cannon. It is way easier to destroy than to create. Even the best creator can't help but be able to destroy more than they can create. Businesses can't afford some random guy to anoint himself the face of the company just because he write code goodly.

Like Elon, hate him, I don't care. My feelings are decidedly mixed and probably trend negative overall, though not to the extent the HN gestalt would necessarily like, and for different reasons. But if you look at this interaction in befuddlement, you need to understand what's really going on and remove your hatred from Elon from the equation, because you need to know that you, too can get fired from your job for doing the exact same thing, even if you work for a company that isn't run by Elon. In fact most people who understand this sort of thing would see the CEO not firing you as being a show of extreme weakness from the CEO.

I mean, if that's how you want to go out, by all means, be my guest. There's a time and a place for it. Maybe you would personally judge this as one of them. I don't, "nuh-uh we don't make that many RPC calls for that" is not the hill I would choose to die on, but there are hills worth dying on; "whistleblowing" looks a lot like this and can be very valuable to society. I'm not saying this is never a valid move; I want the reader who is befuddled by Elon firing this person to understand the why, and that it is not even remotely Elon-specific, so that if you ever choose to do this sort of thing, at least your model of what is likely to happen in the world is accurate. This post is not a defense of Elon, this post is a public service announcement. I have no problem with people making bold choices, heck, I think our society is too risk averse to bold choices, but I think people ought to have accurate understandings of the cost/benefits of such choices.

Post reply on HN