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Ask HN: Why is pay so much higher in the US? (or is it?)

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Re: Ask HN: Why is pay so much higher in the US? (or is it?)

#131

Post by jlbbellefeuille »

olabyne wrote: post #88
kf7njh wrote: post #67

As an American living in Germany for a few years now, this is something I really struggle with. In short, it's because Europeans are content with lower wages. I am in a "high-demand" job as an electrical engineer at a publicly traded medical company, and getting less than €65k. This is absolutely absurd in my opinion, but in discussions with friends/colleagues they feel it's overall typical. One colleague was in shoc…

Hey french here. You are speaking of raw income, right? I don't think we are content with lower wages. It's just that you cannot really compare EU-US just like that. You need to compare cost of living, entirely. Paid leave. Public holiday. College fees. Working time. But also what I call 'peace of mind'. In Europe, you have retirement from the state. You will never have crazy, 6 figures hospital bills. My employer fi…

Sharing numbers in the office DOES NOT benefit the employer. Share your salaries, bonuses and equity based compensation! That way your employer can no longer take advantage of you or your peers!

Re: Ask HN: Why is pay so much higher in the US? (or is it?)

#132

Post by TMWNN »

thephyber wrote: post #121
whiddershins wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, if you have health insurance this isn't true. None of this is how it actually is in the US. Outside of addicts and the severely mentally ill it is rare to "fall off" middle class status.

note this comment is likely very misleading. > According to a study published in February 2019, about 530,000 bankruptcies filed annually are because of debt accrued due to a medical illness. The study found that even the Obama administration’s landmark Affordable Care Act (known as Obamacare) has failed to change the proportion of bankruptcies caused by medical debts, with poor health insurance cited as one of the m…

>> According to a study published in February 2019, about 530,000 bankruptcies filed annually are because of debt accrued due to a medical illness.

That's the same bogus study that Elizabeth Warren has been pushing for years, which attributes any bankruptcy in which medical bills are involved to mean that medical bills caused the bankruptcy. Only 4% of US bankruptcies are because of medical bills https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2018/0...>. A tipoff that [insert large percentage here] of bankruptcies aren't actually because of medical costs is that only 6% of bankruptcies by those without health insurance are because of that cause. The biggest cause of bankruptcies is lack of income, which health insurance doesn't affect.

Re: Ask HN: Why is pay so much higher in the US? (or is it?)

#133

Post by TMWNN »

whiddershins wrote: post #73

The biggest insight I am gaining from this thread is how many misconceptions about the US are rampant. Everyone: we have doctors in the US and if you have a job you get health insurance. Also we have paid leave, and software developers often have great benefits including for example paternity leave. And if you want a walkable city and not own a car we have New York. And if you want a good free education for your kids…

>The biggest insight I am gaining from this thread is how many misconceptions about the US are rampant.

Most of those spreading the nonsense here know that what they are spreading is false. It's mostly (not entirely) massive copium, because they have tried to get a US job and for whatever reason haven't been able to.

They know very well that European salaries don't compensate for the "guaranteed leave" that is, along with "free healthcare", the favorite citation for why it's ackshually more expensive to live in the US than in Europe.

That's not to say that there are those who sincerely prefer life in Europe for family, cultural, linguistic, or other reasons. But 90% of people here denying the naked truth about US paychecks and cost of living versus those of other advanced countries aren't coming from such perspectives.

Re: Ask HN: Why is pay so much higher in the US? (or is it?)

#134

Post by wbsss4412 »

credit_guy wrote: post #126
wbsss4412 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile my friend here I’m the US has to wait until may 2023 to see a dermatologist. Long wait times exist in the US as well, we just like to pretend that it’s a socialized medicine thing.

Yes, but it's most likely a top dermatologist. There are lots of dermatologists around. For the first visit, it's normal to have to wait one or two months. Almost one year is definitely not normal.

> Yes, but it's most likely a top dermatologist.

It is not. It is a dermatologist.

> Almost one year is definitely not normal.

I would like to believe that too, but I don’t know what to tell you.

Re: Ask HN: Why is pay so much higher in the US? (or is it?)

#136

Post by stingraycharles »

badpun wrote: post #42
pavlov wrote: post #28

Mainly because USA developed multiple geographic clusters where software developers are in high demand (Bay Area for consumer tech, New York for finance etc.) and the funding ecosystem is both deep-pocketed and culturally supports paying for talent. Traditionally European VCs and founders both operated under the assumption that startups need to save money rather than spend to get the best. And consequently those star…

Most coders don't work in tech or startups, but in regular businesses. An yet, they still make more in the US than in Europe. Perhaps it falls in line with general lower compensation in Europe - I mean, for example there are plenty job offers for accountants in London (super-expensive city) which advertise sub 30k pounds pay per year. I don't think there are a lot of accountants in NYC who would take a job for the eq…

Isn’t the cost of living in US, especially in the “clusters of high demand”, generally higher than Europe as well?

Re: Ask HN: Why is pay so much higher in the US? (or is it?)

#137

Post by aaomidi »

turkeysandwich wrote: post #100
skywal_l wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Pension Systems that at this point are a Ponzi scheme where working taxpayers are paying for retiree income (Privatized Retirement is fairly limited in Europe and mostly optional on top of standard contributions) How is this a Ponzi Scheme ? Currently working people help sustain retired people the same way retired people help the retired people when they were working and the same way young people will sustain the c…

It's a Ponzi scheme when it's not sustainable. Social Security in the US, for example is not financially viable in its current form. Either the retirement age will need to be raised or its obligations will need to be abandoned, probably a bit of both. Some but not all European pension schemes are facing similar problems.

Do you know there is a tax cap on social security?

Re: Ask HN: Why is pay so much higher in the US? (or is it?)

#138

Post by b20000 »

cost of living in US metro areas is about 4x that of mainland europe.

add to that the lack of social safety net and the cost of real estate, and generally high risks compared to being in europe (risk of getting sued, going from rich to poor in the blink of an eye etc).

Re: Ask HN: Why is pay so much higher in the US? (or is it?)

#139

Post by gigatexal »

gnicholas wrote: post #130
gigatexal wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m an expat here too and I pay a CPA to do my taxes. (1 rental means a biz return and all the deductions… meh) if you can take home 400k from 500k in gross then you’re doing amazingly well.

This sounds too good to be true to me (as a former tax lawyer). If you're being paid 500k in salary I can't think of how you take home this much. Maybe you put a ton into tax-deferred accounts, but that's not the same as netting 80% as take-home. It's kicking the can down the road (to a time when tax rates may be even higher).

Tangent: are you a former tax lawyer turned dev? What’s your story? I am a sucker for folks that have interesting or non-traditional (CS degree -> sw job) journeys into tech.

Re: Ask HN: Why is pay so much higher in the US? (or is it?)

#140

Post by SamReidHughes »

wbsss4412 wrote: post #134
credit_guy wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but it's most likely a top dermatologist. There are lots of dermatologists around. For the first visit, it's normal to have to wait one or two months. Almost one year is definitely not normal.

> Yes, but it's most likely a top dermatologist. It is not. It is a dermatologist. > Almost one year is definitely not normal. I would like to believe that too, but I don’t know what to tell you.

This is not the experience of my family members.
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