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Ask HN: Anyone having issues with job applicant fraud?

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Re: Ask HN: Anyone having issues with job applicant fraud?

#131

Post by heavyset_go »

dexwiz wrote: post #6
quadcore wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good question. As an educational note, please be careful and tell your kids some - unbalanced - people have no other endgame than to annoy you and play with your emotions. To destroy you mentally (sometimes physically as well). Thats their kick. Pretty sure this applies in this case as well. Dont get me wrong, they are humans and deserve respect.

> Dont get me wrong, they are humans and deserve respect. But why? I feel like we devalue true respect by repeating phrases like this. I'm not saying they deserve to be abused, but why do they deserve respect for solely existing? EDIT: All the replies seem to be conflating dignity with respect. Your birth gave you the right to your dignity, and no should be able to take that from you. Respect must be earned, and can…

There's a baseline of respect people get for being human, they have wants, needs, beliefs, belong to cultures, they get hungry, feel pain, don't want to needlessly suffer or die, etc and those aspects are universal.

I'd use the word humanity to describe that level of respect, to contrast it with something more or less universally regarded as the lack of humanity, things we might even consider crimes against humanity, where people are deprived of the respect towards their humanity, denying them food, inflicting pain, eradication of culture, systematic murder, etc.

Obviously there's a lot of gray room between the two where, for example, cruelty for the sake of cruelty, in most circumstances, could be considered a lack of respect that people deserve for solely existing. That's certainly not on the level of crimes against humanity, but I wouldn't say that's respectful, either.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone having issues with job applicant fraud?

#132

Post by myth_drannon »

__d wrote: post #114

Early 2010's, Wall St software tech vendor: I had a candidate show up for an interview, in person, go through the preliminaries and then sit down in a meeting room for the detailed questions. As we got into it, the candidate often asked me to repeat the question. I was happy to do so, but after a few times, I was already taking care to speak slowly and clearly, and it was still happening a lot. Then I noticed a quiet…

Reminds me of an old Soviet comedy where a student taking exam in university with an ear piece. https://youtu.be/vADlGmX7-qU

Re: Ask HN: Anyone having issues with job applicant fraud?

#133

Post by thrill »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #46
xwdv wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Um we can still have nice things if people stop being naive. It’s not hard to verify someone actually exists… there are ways.

I know. It was a joke. I'm old, and have seen plenty of rejection, even though I'm "the real deal." But that kind of behavior has been used as an excuse for ignoring me. The icing on the cake, was when I was told that "I probably faked" my portfolio. At that point, I realized that I am radioactive, and might as well just give up.

Yeah, I've got that t-shirt. One guy flat out told me "I think your resume is a fraud". I'd had enough, and flatly said "I really don't give a flying fuck what you believe." It was worth it watching his partner beside him choking while drinking his water.

I followed up with a letter to the CEO with description of the event and proof of my credentials. No idea what happened to the interviewer, nor do I care.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone having issues with job applicant fraud?

#134

Post by ByersReason »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #32
tschwimmer wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine either: a) Get hired, collect a paycheck or two while doing the absolute bare minimum (filling out onboarding forms, etc - no real work) and then move on to the next victim company. or b) Get hired with the goal of getting access to improperly secured company or user data. I imagine a) is vastly more common than b).

With b), they are actually likely to be the real thing; just treacherous.

It seems based on the two times I saw it that it is mostly delusion. The idea appears to be that you can learn to do something complex on the job with a slight amount of experience and a lookup site, like stackoverflow or rose. I assume this would be sufficient if you assume really non-technical management, incapable of gauging progress.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone having issues with job applicant fraud?

#135

Post by rockemsockem »

kube-system wrote: post #24
paxys wrote: post #7

This is exactly why the technical interview process is what it is. No point wasting time asking about backgrounds and describing past projects (all of it can be easily faked). Make them write code in front of you live as part of the screening round.

I don't like making people write code live. Some really good coders just don't work well with people looking over their shoulder. I prefer giving people a take-home with an original problem to solve. Then, follow that up with a live call where you ask them some questions about it.

You can still be coached through a take-home and follow-up though.

I like to ask a very easy problem to start (some candidates spend the full 45 minutes on it) and then ask a similar problem after to build on it. If you work for a company there is some expectation of being able to work while people watch you. I don't like asking crazy dynamic programming problems, etc, but something simple and something slightly harder should be fine for someone who's good at their job.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone having issues with job applicant fraud?

#136

Post by givemeethekeys »

aliqot wrote: post #92
fsckboy wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China employs non-Chinese to track and interfere with dissidents and critics of China in the US https://news.artnet.com/art-world/us-blames-china-operatives... and of course, plenty of Russians and Iranians are non-Asian (in appearance, Persia is in Asia of course)

Russia is partly asia as well.

I hear you. Generally when Americans say, "Asian", they mean, people from China, Japan, the Koreas, and to a lesser extent Filipino, Thai, Indo, Malay.. but mostly.

Basically, if you have smaller eyes, then you are Asian. Otherwise, you are Russian or Indian .. etc, sort of like how some people consider people from India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh as "brown".

Continental unity doesn't mean much for Asia as much as it does for Europe or Africa.

Good luck correcting the millions. Just roll with it. Concentrate on whats most important to you.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone having issues with job applicant fraud?

#137

Post by givemeethekeys »

plebianRube wrote: post #86

Yes. In a fairly large public company I worked at, I remember a DBA on contract got fired because he knew absolutely nothing. But only a few weeks later he was back, in the same building, but using a different name on a different floor working as a Senior Software Architect. He got caught because someone in the DB department recognized him, called him by his old name and they pretended they never new him.

I knew someone who learned on the job until they got fired. They faired much better on the next job. Hard times call for hard people.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone having issues with job applicant fraud?

#138

Post by somehnacct3757 »

iaaan wrote: post #128

Earlier this year, I interviewed this guy who gave me really strange vibes. He would stall for a good 15-20 seconds after each question I asked... and then spit out a perfectly worded answer. I google'd some specific, peculiar phrases I remembered him saying after the interview and found that the phrases came straight out of places like the Kubernetes documentation, word for word. He was googling my questions and the…

I've had this happen so I always check the websites of their last employer now specifically for copypasta.

It only happened once ever. But I just keep on checking.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone having issues with job applicant fraud?

#139

Post by thrill »

rabuse wrote: post #80
strongpigeon wrote: post #21

Slightly tangential, but I wonder how long before you have people using deepfakes to look and sound like someone else on camera to perpetrate this kind of fraud. It seems like all of the pieces are mostly there.

Just ask them to turn their heads all the way around. Should defeat any of that, lol.

I'm calling Father Damien if that happens.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone having issues with job applicant fraud?

#140

Post by heavyset_go »

Spooky23 wrote: post #51
heavyset_go wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a lot of people who believe they can fake it until they make it, and they also often think that everyone fakes it until they make it, as well. That's the end game, doing whatever it takes until they make it.

Once they make it into an organization, they often do very well.

Perhaps, but I've seen more than a handful of the hustle culture types crash and burn once they could no longer fake it sufficiently.

Some things you really do need the knowledge, experience and time spent on to navigate successfully, and you just can't fake that consistently as time goes on, especially around other people who do have that knowledge and experience.

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