Blockchain has no use other than to store tokens for speculative gambling. Take a look at this presentation - https://bit.ly/3OB5G18 Proof-of-work - the USP of blockchain makes it slow and expensive and planet destroying at scale. But it's not a bug, it's a feature. You take it out and the blockchain is neither public not permission-less. A private, trusted, permissioned blockchain is pointless. The whole blockchain,…
> A private, trusted, permissioned blockchain is pointless Not at all - it's a verifiable audit log. Git is an example of exactly this.
Ask HN: Am I going insane or is there genuinely no value in blockchain tech?
131–140 of 576 posts
Re: Ask HN: Am I going insane or is there genuinely no value in blockchain tech?
#132Earlier quoted context omitted.
>The sole purpose of blockchain is to prevent double spending without a trusted party That is most accurate description of blockchain I have read. Unfortunately, the mechanism for that (Proof-of-work) is slow, expensive and planet destroying at scale. And while we may remove a trust provider third party, we aren't getting rid of centralization with blockchain anyway.
> That is most accurate description of blockchain I have read. It might interest you to know then that the short, digestible 8 page whitepaper on Bitcoin, which originally described the blockchain, specifically used this definition. It's the most accurate because it is what a blockchain was designed for. I recommend giving it a read and ignoring any project which doesn't follow its core tenants. https://bitcoin.org/b…
Re: Ask HN: Am I going insane or is there genuinely no value in blockchain tech?
#133Re: Ask HN: Am I going insane or is there genuinely no value in blockchain tech?
#134Like for example a distributed federate ledger is useful for checking/auditing/simplifying some federated tasks, like around supply-chain or to e.g. make it a bit more viable to interlink to game servers of the same game operated by different entities which have a real-mony related in-game economy (non of this are silver bullets, just make abuse harder).
> At the same time, the amount of coverage and attention it is getting and for a sustained period makes me believe I am missing something.
What you are missing is people gaining money through high risk investments, pyramid schemes. As well as rich people which hope this tech allows them to further avoid state control and taxes. I also have seen a bunch of times that some problems the US has are believed by tech, especially crypto people to be fundamental problems which need tech to be solved, while they pretty clearly are 100% fault of bad politics. Like personal banking in the US is crazy bad (for anyone not wealthy) that some very poor very unstable countries do a better job. I was competently shocked when I realized that in the US it's not the norm for poor people to have a bank accounts and neither is it trivial to safely send money between two private bank accounts in a not too long amount of time. If you either don't want to accept that such problems are caused by politics or accept it but don't think it can't be changed it's not hard to see crypto currencies as a good idea.
Also crypto can be good to avoid government control, in a stable countries this is quite often related to crime but if you life idk. in a autocratic country while still being crime technical it might be ethically "good" from a western point of view. Like sending money into an embargoed country for you family to live from is still technically circumventing an (lets assume for a moment) reasonable embargo, but is ethically ok because you help your family to survive.
Re: Ask HN: Am I going insane or is there genuinely no value in blockchain tech?
#135Earlier quoted context omitted.
Does anyone want or need “bulletproof” anything? The one feature of any transaction or contractual framework that I’d be most reluctant to give up is the one where they are fungible and reversible e.g in courts. Features luge secrecy, resistance to hacking, corruption, and so on seem to be second to this in nearly every case in the regular/legal economy of open democracy (I.e the part of the economy that matters).
Solutions exist to this that can respect the distributed nature and not rely upon a single authority. Multisig wallets that require N of M where the participants are chosen from a broad swath of the relevant community is popular. That way you can go in and change transactions after the fact, all without requiring the blockchain to (a) know about it and (b) everyone gets to choose their own relevant security model. It…
If there is some shenanigans going on then the buyer/seller can just take it to a court. Cash or not isn’t really relevant to the legality of a transaction it’s just a means of payment.
It’s just like the deed to a house, it’s not really relevant to the purchase of a house. It’s that the buyer and seller respects the legal framework surrounding the transfer. A blockchain storing house ownerships doesn’t add much?
Re: Ask HN: Am I going insane or is there genuinely no value in blockchain tech?
#136Earlier quoted context omitted.
>The sole purpose of blockchain is to prevent double spending without a trusted party That is most accurate description of blockchain I have read. Unfortunately, the mechanism for that (Proof-of-work) is slow, expensive and planet destroying at scale. And while we may remove a trust provider third party, we aren't getting rid of centralization with blockchain anyway.
Planet destroying is a bit extreme. The traditional finance system is no more energy efficient overall. It’s certainly not environmentally friendly, but that’s more a function of the dirty power we use for anything and everything. We just need to fix our methods of generating energy, not criticize everything that uses a lot of it.
Using more power[1] to process vastly more transactions makes it more efficient. There are over a billion credit card transactions per day as it is, and that doesn't include debit cards, wire transfers, BACS, Swift, PayPal, WU, AliPay, WeChat and all the others. And cash while we're at it, that's part of the system too.
[1]: Lets say it does, though transaction processing is only a small part of the financial industries. I don't even know how much the whole industry uses, let alone what fraction is transaction handling.
Re: Ask HN: Am I going insane or is there genuinely no value in blockchain tech?
#137Here are some questions that you can test your hypothesis with:
* Can you get distributed and trust-less settlement mechanisms with a centralized database?
* Can you seamlessly send value across jurisdictions and closed borders without meddlers and middlemen with traditional database technology (regulation resistance and unconfiscatableness)?
* Can you escape coercion and control with a centralized database (regulation and coercion resistance), while at the same time attaining great protection against criminal coercion and theft (resistance against crime and corruption)?
* Can a centralized database offer the same and relative anonymity as cash?
* How would any of the above be valuable without markets and speculation? I.e. how would you know the value of what is being sent or traded with you without something else to compare it to?
If you want to answer without merely saying yes or no, then I'd love to see your answers! Perhaps you can convince me to update some of my beliefs. :)
Re: Ask HN: Am I going insane or is there genuinely no value in blockchain tech?
#138All the activities that regulators are designed to prevent are very successful in the crypto world.
I don't think crypto will fail or go bust; but I do think retail investors are completely abandoned by regulators who have a democratic mandate to protect them.
I suppose they don't want to be seen as stifling an innovative technology and politicians don't want to get blowback for efforts that would fail anyway.
Anyway, until we have global governance there will not be global regulation of the space so it will go on for many more decades.
Re: Ask HN: Am I going insane or is there genuinely no value in blockchain tech?
#139Earlier quoted context omitted.
Good point - blockchain also prevents transaction censorship (your proposal prevents double spend but allows the central authority to block transactions) Central authorities might do wild stuff like block Folks They Don’t Like (certain truck drivers, etc). Some people think that’s really good, others feel the opposite (edited for clarity)
Can you expand on this a bit? Which element regarding censorship does Blockchain help prevent? I ask earnestly as it feels like a forgone conclusion but depending on what you refer to I'm not sure it is. My initial thought is about freedom of spending and transactions as a concept of the chain but I guess it's not exactly censorship in the most common sense.
Any miner can decide that they won't include your transaction in a block, but as long as any one miner that occasionally mines a block is willing to include your transaction, your transaction will eventually make it onto the blockchain.
A majority of miners (by hashpower) could still decide to censor (orphan) the entire block, but unless a majority of the hashpower is willing to do that, your transaction will stay there.
Re: Ask HN: Am I going insane or is there genuinely no value in blockchain tech?
#140Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’ve read several technical, non-fluff books on the topic, and I’ve developed smart contracts on Ethereum for decent hourly wage (paid out in fiat). And I’ve still come to roughly the same conclusion as you. Either my reading comprehension is poor, or there is little actual value in the vast majority of blockchain applications. Digital cash, as defined in the Bitcoin whitepaper, still seems like the only real use cas…
If you've developed smart contracts, I'm surprised you don't consider the capability of trustless financial instruments (peer-to-peer lending and pooled lending, for example) to be pretty useful as well