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Ask HN: Why doesn't HN alert users in some manner to new replies?

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Re: Ask HN: Why doesn't HN alert users in some manner to new replies?

#131

Post by warrenm »

rootusrootus wrote: post #109
ravenstine wrote: post #7

If I see my karma go up, that usually tells me that someone may have replied to something I said. Otherwise, I'm glad there's no alert for new replies. Conversation should be intentional. If I'm gonna be reading what someone said in response to me, I better already have enough motivation to check back and see if someone replied. When I don't check back, it's probably because I've got something more important to focus…

I have thought for some time that votes should come in two flavors. X if you make a comment, X/10 if you don't. Drive-by voting is of little value, and for abusive posts that need downvoting we have flagging to accomplish quick removal. Giving more weight to people who write a reply would encourage more conversation. Of course, then there is a question of whether it would encourage more thoughtful comments or not, an…

Social voting is broken - and probably shouldn't exist (https://antipaucity.com/2015/09/16/like-problems-social-voti...)

That said, I'm not asking for notifications on upvotes (like Stack Overflow does)

I'm asking for the basic functionality of all internet fora I've interacted with for the last close to 30 years that tell you if you have any replies

Re: Ask HN: Why doesn't HN alert users in some manner to new replies?

#132

Post by kodah »

pvg wrote: post #97

This has been addressed by dang before, one representative pastequote from a recent (ish) comment: Yes, I think we'll continue to avoid the notification system, not just because of flamewars but also because (relatedly) it's not so compatible with curiosity. Push notifications seem to jack up the nervous system in a way that's good for engagement but not necessarily for users—we all experience this elsewhere on the i…

I really like the lack of push notifications. Sometimes I'll make a reply during my morning coffee, do some work, then check back in the afternoon to find hundreds of replies and deep threaded discussion. The sense of pride I get from being able to start a healthy thread without more participation is opposed to the jacking of the nervous system dang is reflecting on. In some way, it builds my confidence in this community.

Re: Ask HN: Why doesn't HN alert users in some manner to new replies?

#133

Post by samatman »

The only thing I'm personally missing from the current system is a chance to find replies to older comments.

As an HN-ish proposal, how about a link on the user page for replies, but only to comments which can't be downvoted (24 hours, for those who might not know)? It could have a number next to it and would surface replies from newest to oldest, but again, only to comments outside of the downvote window.

This would allow some conversations of technical interest to play out days or weeks later, which is of value to users who find hacker news threads sometimes years after the topic was current.

This avoids the dopamine bump of active notifications completely, and prevents tossing gasoline on flamewars, which only rage while the antikarma button is active.

Re: Ask HN: Why doesn't HN alert users in some manner to new replies?

#134

Post by pHollda »

warrenm wrote: post #123
scythe wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=warrenm The link is not in the topbar but it's easy to find in your profile.

thanks for proving my point: I had to go hunting for this submission just to see if anyone had replied/answered And no one has (as of 1133 EST 17-Feb-2022) provided a real answer for why HN has such an obvious feature missing :)

It's the same reason dang needs to manually tell people about 'more' in long threads, or repost previous discussion of the same topic. That was the initial design and no one wants to make new changes because of an absurd idealization of that design.

No one wants to rethink old decisions made a long time ago and genuinely wonder if things need to change. Hence people come up with bullshit defences.

Re: Ask HN: Why doesn't HN alert users in some manner to new replies?

#135

Post by onion2k »

warrenm wrote: post #127
onion2k wrote: post #124

One of the really good things about HN is the Algolia integration so building things like a notifier relatively easy. The structure of the data means you can do a lot. The HTML of the pages is old-school enough that rewriting it with a browser plugin is straightforward too. HN is "hackable" in the classic sense of the word. You can build your own things on top of it. It doesn't need extra features if they just read d…

>You can build your own things on top of it. It doesn't need extra features if they just read data and do things when stuff changes - you can do that yourself. I'm sure I "could" do that myself - but why waste my time when it's something so incredibly trivial to add to the site so everyone benefits? Intentionally breaking the pattern of internet fora by withholding this feature seems ...

Intentionally breaking the pattern of internet fora by withholding this feature seems

Saying that the HN devs are "withholding" a feature implies that you think you're entitled to their development time, QA time, support, etc. You aren't.

Re: Ask HN: Why doesn't HN alert users in some manner to new replies?

#136

Post by karaterobot »

ballenf wrote: post #59
ravenstine wrote: post #7

If I see my karma go up, that usually tells me that someone may have replied to something I said. Otherwise, I'm glad there's no alert for new replies. Conversation should be intentional. If I'm gonna be reading what someone said in response to me, I better already have enough motivation to check back and see if someone replied. When I don't check back, it's probably because I've got something more important to focus…

I use a custom style sheet to hide my karma score (except on user profile page where I can go if I'm super curious). It's broke an unhealthy cycle I would subconsciously try to craft the perfect reply and get an addiction-inducing high from some big karma boost. Or big productivity-killing negative response.

Me too, as of a month or so ago. So far it has been an improvement in my experience with HN. I wouldn't mind this being a toggle on the configuration screen.

Re: Ask HN: Why doesn't HN alert users in some manner to new replies?

#137

Post by passivate »

mindcrime wrote: post #50
account42 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could do delayed notifications. Not having them at all sucks because you are pretty much guaranteed not to see replies to older comments.

you are pretty much guaranteed not to see replieds to older comments. I consider this a feature, not a bug. IMO, it's good to let older conversations just kinda "run out of steam" as attention moves elsewhere. In my experience, extended discussions here tend to be unproductive flame-war level discussion. I don't see any value in making it easier to sustain that.

There are many times I don't reply to a comment that is multiple days old simply because nobody is going to read it.

In my experience, the "hot takes" are often low quality comments. Quality comments take time and thought, and HN isn't conducive for that.

Re: Ask HN: Why doesn't HN alert users in some manner to new replies?

#138

Post by lolsal »

pvg wrote: post #97

This has been addressed by dang before, one representative pastequote from a recent (ish) comment: Yes, I think we'll continue to avoid the notification system, not just because of flamewars but also because (relatedly) it's not so compatible with curiosity. Push notifications seem to jack up the nervous system in a way that's good for engagement but not necessarily for users—we all experience this elsewhere on the i…

I also appreciate this.

Re: Ask HN: Why doesn't HN alert users in some manner to new replies?

#139

Post by jimmyvalmer »

Lots of sour grapes rationalizing.

Every deprived addict, from the grounded Minecraft player to the imprisoned dope fiend, will tell you the deprivation was good for him, but as soon he's given a shot at another fix, he'll instantly take it.

I hate Slack's always-on nature. That I keep using it should tell me how I really feel about it.

Re: Ask HN: Why doesn't HN alert users in some manner to new replies?

#140

Post by WithinReason »

warrenm wrote: post #99
WithinReason wrote: post #27

It's a filter, and it works very well. If you're tech savvy you can figure it out for yourself, if you're not then what are you doing on HN? Here is your latest reply RSS feed: https://hnrss.org/replies?id=warrenm

So ... now I need to use an external tool for something that's intentionally-lacking on the main site? no thanks :)

No problem :) As I said in a parallel reply, people not knowing when they get a response improves the discussion quality here.
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