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Ask HN: for senior positions is it advisable to list side projects on your CV?

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Re: Ask HN: for senior positions is it advisable to list side projects on your CV?

#131

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

ljm wrote: post #92
dannyw wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I am trying to hire someone into my team, I want to make use of all relevant and appropriate signals that can help me make a better decision. I consider side projects to be an appropriate and often valuable signal. While it is unfortunate that side projects have some selection bias against those who are time-poor, it also feels wrong to me to discriminate against people who can demonstrate their skills and impress…

If two candidates are equal and the tie-breaker is that one ran a side project in their spare time, is that not an immediate disadvantage to the otherwise excellent, hireable candidate who didn't have that? Meanwhile, if you ignore the side project, that candidate isn't disadvantaged as a result. They're just given the same consideration as the other candidate, not more and not less. How you choose between the two at…

You could make the same argument about any other aspect of their resume. The reality is that candidates are never exactly the same "except for this one thing." What if one candidate gets to do side projects as part of their job? Should you ignore that?

Re: Ask HN: for senior positions is it advisable to list side projects on your CV?

#132

Post by cryptoz »

Last year, I interviewed for a senior role where the interviewer actively made fun of my side project. They suggested without directly stating it that they thought it was a dumb side project toy app, despite it being quite complex and not trivial.

Doesn't dissuade me. That interviewer was the stupid one, not me. My best lesson learned is to make sure that your side projects that are involved, look involved. If it is a big side project but you are humble about it, it's possible it will work counter to you in the interview. Senior roles need senior side projects and if you make toys it can definitely (stupidly) count against you.

Re: Ask HN: for senior positions is it advisable to list side projects on your CV?

#133

Post by jawilson2 »

majewsky wrote: post #31
Jenk wrote: post #21

I always ask candidates if they have anything to show off. I am _always_ more interested in what people do as a side project than I am of what they have done professionally. Hyperbole time but I think it conveys the message: People do side projects for better reaons than they do professionally. At worst it's because they want to quickly learn/achieve something for their next job. Compared to professional experience,…

I appreciate your sentiment. At the same time, looking at side projects runs the risk of discriminating against qualified candidates who don't have time for side projects because of other commitments (e.g. childcare or care for elderly relatives) or who choose to pursue non-IT hobbies to keep a work-life balance. How do you avoid treating such candidates unfairly?

When I interview candidates, I ALWAYS take these things into consideration. My best hire was a guy who took some time off after his last job, and the highlight of his previous year was learning a book of Bach piano pieces. It IS, however, hard to not pry too much into personal/family stuff, for HR reasons, e.g. talking with "women who are pregnant or may become pregnant" without giving the impression that pregnancy or child care might be a detriment to hiring. Obviously there are numerous other cases like this as well, unrelated to gender, pregnancy is just the first example that came to mind.

I love hearing about non-professional things. Coding outside of work is actually a negative for me, because I assume you are going to get burnt out. I WANT you to have a life outside of work, because A) you are human and deserve that, and B) you are more productive during work. I'm fine if you take a few days off to run an ultra-marathon, or take off a few hours early to catch your kid's baseball game, or care for a family member, whatever. Well-rounded people are better at writing software, in my experience, and better to work with.

Re: Ask HN: for senior positions is it advisable to list side projects on your CV?

#134

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

shard wrote: post #42
Jenk wrote: post #21

I always ask candidates if they have anything to show off. I am _always_ more interested in what people do as a side project than I am of what they have done professionally. Hyperbole time but I think it conveys the message: People do side projects for better reaons than they do professionally. At worst it's because they want to quickly learn/achieve something for their next job. Compared to professional experience,…

I think it depends on just how senior this position is. Senior developer, sure. VP of engineering, no. Team lead, maybe. If you list side projects, it needs to scale with your position. A VP's side project would scale up to a viable business of its own, which then is no longer a side project but a work experience entry in the CV.

Not necessarily. At my last job, when I was being interviewed by the company President, he had a little hexapod robot on the desk. I asked him about it and it was a side project he had. His workday was so focused on managing the business, that he kept it around so he could do at least a little programming every week and keep his feet in the tech side of things.

Re: Ask HN: for senior positions is it advisable to list side projects on your CV?

#135

Post by QuercusMax »

Osiris wrote: post #56
dannyw wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I am trying to hire someone into my team, I want to make use of all relevant and appropriate signals that can help me make a better decision. I consider side projects to be an appropriate and often valuable signal. While it is unfortunate that side projects have some selection bias against those who are time-poor, it also feels wrong to me to discriminate against people who can demonstrate their skills and impress…

I am not an ideas guy. Give me a project and I'll build it. Ask me what I'd like to build and I'll have no idea. In 15 years I've had 1 side project. I'm a staff engineer.

It's taken me a long time to come to terms with this fact, but I (also a staff swe) am not a great idea factory. But if you have a problem you need solved, I can absolutely make that happen, and come up with creative solutions.

Re: Ask HN: for senior positions is it advisable to list side projects on your CV?

#137

Post by sativallday »

Definitely useful to be able to demonstrate you've implemented, tested, deployed, and maintained some sort of software on your own.

Also being able to talk through design decisions and tradeoffs from an engineering point of view is useful.

Finally, I would advise that if you are applying to a position through a recruiter, stop asking for senior level positions. Ask for staff level positions instead, you'll receive more autonomy and a higher pay as well.

Re: Ask HN: for senior positions is it advisable to list side projects on your CV?

#139

Post by [deleted] »

indigochill wrote: post #114
majewsky wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate your sentiment. At the same time, looking at side projects runs the risk of discriminating against qualified candidates who don't have time for side projects because of other commitments (e.g. childcare or care for elderly relatives) or who choose to pursue non-IT hobbies to keep a work-life balance. How do you avoid treating such candidates unfairly?

> How do you avoid treating such candidates unfairly? To be frank, the job of a hiring decision-maker isn't to treat candidates fairly, it's to hire the best fit for the role based on the available signals. It's the job of the candidate to send the best signals they can, however they go about doing that. One thing we'll probe for in our interviews with more experienced candidates is what kind of experience/lessons th…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: for senior positions is it advisable to list side projects on your CV?

#140

Post by ManBlanket »

Jenk wrote: post #21

I always ask candidates if they have anything to show off. I am _always_ more interested in what people do as a side project than I am of what they have done professionally. Hyperbole time but I think it conveys the message: People do side projects for better reaons than they do professionally. At worst it's because they want to quickly learn/achieve something for their next job. Compared to professional experience,…

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- Algorithm which refuses loans to black people.

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