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Ask HN: I was hit with a patent troll lawsuit, how do I deal with it?

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Re: Ask HN: I was hit with a patent troll lawsuit, how do I deal with it?

#131

Post by ARandomerDude »

foobarbazetc wrote: post #54
dmabram wrote: post #33

I've been through similar situations. The "find a lawyer" comments are less than helpful, since you probably don't know where to begin and most lawyers will happily take your money without necessarily having an expedient path to resolution for a small one-person company. So here's what you do: Write to each of your competitors, explain the situation and ask for a referral to their lawyers. You'd be surprised how many…

Also, just to add to that: a lot of the “good” lawyers will just ghost a one man operation or small business. Dealing with this kind of thing is a nightmare. You have to find someone who does EFF type stuff.

> will just ghost a one man operation or small business

I didn't understand this phrase. Does that mean the "good" lawyer is just a false front and the real business is handled by somebody else?

Re: Ask HN: I was hit with a patent troll lawsuit, how do I deal with it?

#132

Post by throwaway2037 »

foobarbazetc wrote: post #88
syedkarim wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't had any luck with this approach. In some cases, the good-lawyer-you-know will respect the intellect of a lawyer from another firm that has a specialty in IP law. And then the referral will get passed down to an associate partner who is just overseeing the work of junior lawyers. In that scenario, the referral from the good-lawyer-you-know had no real value. The other scenario is that the good-lawyer-you-kno…

Lawyers, like any other profession, are 95% incompetent. Finding the 5% that are competent is harder than it looks. And the hourly rate and/or physical location of said lawyer bares no correlation to competence level. And once you find that person they usually get scooped up and become GC for some VC funded startup or whatever because word travels.

Are you saying that carpenters, electricians, pumblers, builders, cobblers, taxi drivers, nurses, and public school teachers are 95% incompetant? If so, please kindly provide anecdata. This is a positively ridiculous acusation.

Re: Ask HN: I was hit with a patent troll lawsuit, how do I deal with it?

#133

Post by bitwize »

There are basically two ways to respond.

1) roll over and show your belly, and pay up

2) get a patent attorney and fight.

Depending on the size and resources of the patent troll, you may intimidate them out of pursuing the matter just by lawyering up. No one wants protracted litigation, not even vexatious litigants, for whom the fear of litigation is far more profitable than the actual court proceedings. It's money in your pocket if you can get your victims to spook and settle. Muggers work the same way: they don't want a fight, they want you to get scared and hand over your wallet.

I'm not saying that option two is best for you. That depends on your resources. But it's something to consider.

Re: Ask HN: I was hit with a patent troll lawsuit, how do I deal with it?

#134

Post by pbreit »

Andrew_Russell wrote: post #44

I am an IP litigator, and I have dealt with patent trolls repeatedly. I have taken these kinds of cases pro bono in the past for small companies (including through the EFF attorney referral list, https://www.eff.org/pages/legal-assistance ), and I know that others have as well. There are definitely low-cost and pro bono (free) options out there for very small businesses. The EFF attorney referral list is a good place…

And see if you can interest Cloudflare: https://techcrunch.com/2021/04/26/cloudflare-rallies-the-tro...

Re: Ask HN: I was hit with a patent troll lawsuit, how do I deal with it?

#135

Post by Buttons840 »

dathinab wrote: post #129

Hm this is basically on the level of patenting pulling your wallet out of your green pocket to pay for a coffee at a street food shop. Or cutting wood with a knife to then use it to build a chair. I.e. while you need the result of the first part to do the second part, how you do the first part and how you do the second part are completely unrelated. Honestly given the large degree of economical damage such patent tro…

How about requiring a jury of "peers" who actually know the first thing about the subject matter when these things do go to court.

Re: Ask HN: I was hit with a patent troll lawsuit, how do I deal with it?

#136

Post by bitwize »

ARandomerDude wrote: post #131
foobarbazetc wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, just to add to that: a lot of the “good” lawyers will just ghost a one man operation or small business. Dealing with this kind of thing is a nightmare. You have to find someone who does EFF type stuff.

> will just ghost a one man operation or small business I didn't understand this phrase. Does that mean the "good" lawyer is just a false front and the real business is handled by somebody else?

To "ghost" someone is to avoid them without a response. The term probably came from personal relationships (e.g., a woman you were dating starts "ghosting" you). It was previously considered rude but is now appropriate to avoid potentially toxic personal or professional relationships.

Re: Ask HN: I was hit with a patent troll lawsuit, how do I deal with it?

#137

Post by relaunched »

admissionsguy wrote: post #38
relaunched wrote: post #9

Talk to a lawyer. But, here's some things to know - 1) Willful infringement is worse than infringing. 2) Patent trolls are trying to earn money - some money is better than no money. 3) In most legal scenarios, you want to get out of the conflict as cheaply as possible - vindication is very expensive.

Curious, why is it expensive? Is it similar to the process of getting the patent itself where most companies pay $$$ for lawyers, but a determined technical (and legally literate) person can do it themselves with not that much effort (like I did)? Or is there some sort of gatekeeping or statutory fees that must be paid?

It's more expensive than getting a patent, which you can do yourself.

Courts have procedures, and it many juris dictions, they require you to be represented by an attorney. While I'm not an attorney, I've been the the process enough to know a few of the steps:

1) demand letter(s) and responses

2) negotiations, w/o a mediator

3) drafting and filing of the complaint

4) motions w/ responses

5) negotiations w/ a mediator

6) interrogatories

7) discovery

8) depositions

9) pre-trial hearings / more motions

10) presiding judge led mediation (sometimes the judge wants to give it a shot)

11) trial

The entire process can take years - especially when one party is on a tight budget (dragging it out can be strategic).

So, there are quite a lot of steps and in the US, very few statuettes allow for legal fee recovery, so it might not be available.

Re: Ask HN: I was hit with a patent troll lawsuit, how do I deal with it?

#139

Post by blazespin »

dmabram wrote: post #33

I've been through similar situations. The "find a lawyer" comments are less than helpful, since you probably don't know where to begin and most lawyers will happily take your money without necessarily having an expedient path to resolution for a small one-person company. So here's what you do: Write to each of your competitors, explain the situation and ask for a referral to their lawyers. You'd be surprised how many…

On top of that, setting a shared google doc on how to deal with it would be helpful for future folks.

Re: Ask HN: I was hit with a patent troll lawsuit, how do I deal with it?

#140

Post by Zircom »

ARandomerDude wrote: post #131
foobarbazetc wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, just to add to that: a lot of the “good” lawyers will just ghost a one man operation or small business. Dealing with this kind of thing is a nightmare. You have to find someone who does EFF type stuff.

> will just ghost a one man operation or small business I didn't understand this phrase. Does that mean the "good" lawyer is just a false front and the real business is handled by somebody else?

Ghosting means to avoid or stop responding to someone. So he's implying that lawyers may just not even respond since such a small company isn't worth their time, or possibly even just take their money and then "ghost" them after that.
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