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Ask HN: What does performance management look like at your company?

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Re: Ask HN: What does performance management look like at your company?

#131

Post by randycupertino »

jldugger wrote: post #129

Generally, it's a dumpster fire. In any rational world, execs would be basing their OKRs on something similar to https://stripe.com/atlas/guides/business-of-saas#the-fundame... . Instead it's a trickle up process whereby people tell execs what they want to work on, then the execs group those into OKRs. Also the OKRs appear to only have one level, despite being an org with a thousand people. And finally, the system us…

> People fish for peer reviews that paint the rosiest picture.

I found this happening when our firm used KPI metrics (key performance indicators). Whichever metric management emphasized, those would shoot way up via ... weird methods (all sorts of finagling, but not necessarily helping overall firm performance). Every time they optimized for some other lever it would have all sorts of unintended outcomes on other metrics and overall people spent more time trying to get around the system and increase their metrics than just doing a good job. System was scrapped < 12 mo later.

Re: Ask HN: What does performance management look like at your company?

#132

Post by spaetzleesser »

JackMorgan wrote: post #48

I'm eight years into management across two different sized companies. Both have ultimately had entirely subjective systems. I'm currently a director of a twenty person office. My current teams are supposed to have stack ranked individuals, so I simply give everyone the exact average. I also give everyone the same objectives: improve performance with technical debt repayment, use retros to determine working agreements…

My company doesn’t fire anybody so low performers are often moved into management or get to do new green field projects. :(. Good performers are stuck doing maintenance work on the money making products.

Re: Ask HN: What does performance management look like at your company?

#133

Post by spaetzleesser »

edgefield0 wrote: post #100
dimitar wrote: post #68

I manage 30 people, but I review only 10 of them and the rest are reviewed by my team-leads. We use KPIs and 360 feedback. These are not perfect measures, and I acknowledge that often, but are good enough for some purposes. Performance reviews are easy for all sides if there is nothing new in them. If you either side is surprised during a performance review they are not talk to each other nearly enough during the rev…

What are your thoughts on 360 reviews? I've heard the process can be very devisive?

I want to do 360s on the managers two level up and higher. Because they are the real problem in my view. I hate snitching on my direct team members not knowing how the the feedback is used so I usually just praise them without much detail.

Re: Ask HN: What does performance management look like at your company?

#134

Post by XorNot »

m0zg wrote: post #106
AnotherGoodName wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop your manager in their tracks next 1:1 and state you have some feedback about how you're feeling here. Start by noting that it's a very stressful time right now and that these concerns are even more important for you. Your manager would likely be hurt if you left and good managers appreciate upwards feedback so that they can correct on their side. The fact that the performance rating is good means your manager pr…

> Stop your manager in their tracks next 1:1 BAD idea with most managers. Your manager is likely to be vindictive and insecure if confronted like that. Even with peer reviews in place managers have disproportionate influence on your reviews, and promo/comp decisions (something you readily acknowledge). If the manager treats you with disdain, it's almost impossible to fully reverse that - it's just human nature, let a…

This is the correct advice. Management is just another arm of HR and HR is not your friend.

Nobody at any company they don't own should be under any illusions that they're viewed as anything other then replaceable labor. Your salary like everyone else's gets lumped into the expenses column, and your accomplishments don't appear on that spreadsheet next to your name at all.

Re: Ask HN: What does performance management look like at your company?

#135

Post by shajznnckfke »

nilkn wrote: post #89
cbanek wrote: post #24

It's all honestly completely useless. I've never had a useful performance review at any company ever. It's either I'm doing bad, and know it, and that is either my fault or due to reasons outside of my control. Or I'm doing well, and know it. Honestly, sometimes at places things were so bad that I felt I was doing terrible, but I was actually keeping the team going by pushing past a lot of tricky issues. Really I thi…

Here's my slightly unusual take on performance management as a manager. If I'm doing my job well, reviews should mostly feel like a formality. They shouldn't take much time from me or from my reports. If I'm doing my job poorly, one signal of that is that a review takes a lot of effort. If a performance review takes a lot of my time or that of the report receiving the review, it suggests there's been some considerabl…

Some people just don’t like talking and/or writing about themselves. I find the process painful even if I know I’m doing great and I know that everyone else knows too.

Re: Ask HN: What does performance management look like at your company?

#137

Post by cbanek »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #109
cbanek wrote: post #24

It's all honestly completely useless. I've never had a useful performance review at any company ever. It's either I'm doing bad, and know it, and that is either my fault or due to reasons outside of my control. Or I'm doing well, and know it. Honestly, sometimes at places things were so bad that I felt I was doing terrible, but I was actually keeping the team going by pushing past a lot of tricky issues. Really I thi…

This is sad, when I read it I think, "This person has never had an actual manager, just people faking it badly." That said, it isn't too unusual in my experience because people who are good engineers usually get told "you should go into management if you want to keep advancing" but they don't tell them "Oh, and this is a completely different job than you have been doing and none of your skills will apply, kthxbye!" F…

It's true that most of my managers have been terrible, which I think is honestly par for the course (statistically at least).

I have had good managers, but for them, the performance review process actually tends to hamper them. A good manager who knows all the people under them are amazing and then has to stack rank them is going to make someone mad. Your manager only has so much power. Then it's their manager, and their manager. Managers don't have infinite amount of social capital, or even the amount they deserve. Some have too much.

I agree, performance reviews can be a time to get feedback and make changes, but in general, I find the continuous feedback (from standup/team, customers, daily work, incoming types of bugs) much more useful. If anything, I feel that my written reviews have had a lot of dissonance with the financial results or lack of promotion. Many times I can have glowing written reviews, but due to stack ranking, budget, or whatever other excuse they want to use, many times it just doesn't line up with results from management. And it's impossible to hold management to account in general, which is why HR is there.

So when you're doing bad, performance reviews are a stick. And when you're doing good, they dangle the carrot, but many times you can't grab it. Then they force everyone to do mandatory training about how objective the process is, even though it really isn't. And that level of gaslighting has spelled the end for many good employee/employer relationships IMHO.

Re: Ask HN: What does performance management look like at your company?

#138

Post by edgefield0 »

ghettoimp wrote: post #108
edgefield0 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for this comment. Can you please share more details on how the process is structured at your company?

Sure -- once per year: - Write up self review. 1-2 pages to highlight what you worked on and accomplished, who you helped, why it matters. Score yourself on various dimensions of how good of a job you are doing (working with others, getting stuff done, etc.) - Nominate 3-4 people to give you peer reviews. Best to pick people who can speak to your work, ideally with some folks from outside your particular group, and i…

Thanks for this detail. Was there any goal setting at the start of the review period so you understood what you were going to be evaluated against?

Re: Ask HN: What does performance management look like at your company?

#139

Post by PaulStatezny »

JackMorgan wrote: post #48

I'm eight years into management across two different sized companies. Both have ultimately had entirely subjective systems. I'm currently a director of a twenty person office. My current teams are supposed to have stack ranked individuals, so I simply give everyone the exact average. I also give everyone the same objectives: improve performance with technical debt repayment, use retros to determine working agreements…

This is perhaps the most useful comment with actual solutions in a thread with a mostly hopeless vibe.

Thanks for sharing your wisdom, I may be referencing it in the coming year.

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