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Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

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131–140 of 438 posts

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#131

“How to win friends and influence people” is an absolutely wonderful book I wished I’d read 10 or 15 years before I did. Some important ideas - Just, get along with people. A bit reductionist but if you don’t place a high priority on getting along with people you certainly won’t learn how. It really is a habit, and it’s incredibly effective to remember the Cognitive Behavior insight that when you don’t get along with…

Throw away for obvious reasons. I find almost everyone intensely boring. How am I supposed to get along with people without feeling like a complete fraud? Small talk, feigning interest in kids, in sports, in wine, in whatever useless dull, pedestrian thing a coworker is into. I find that anyone who isn't a PhD (or could easily have been if they hadn't gone into industry) might as well be a paper shell. I can put on a…

I had a colleague like that, he was diagnosed with Asperger. He genuinely wanted to be interested in others but wasn't... At least until we discussed bitcoin, or Isaac Arthur, or Scifi audio books with interesting concepts, or his body building diet... I think he just had little in common with the family people at work. I told him, most people have something you can learn from them and if not, just be polite and it's ok. I can tell you (and I have a PhD if this helps you accept my answer) that intelligence has very little to do with having a PhD so you are ignoring a lot of interesting, smart people right there.

You know, some people that you would consider simpletons are intensely happy due to their attitude in life and I for one am always interested in those people. People with a drive to explore the world or to make their loved ones happy. To me you sound pretty ignorant if you claim that you can peel back a layer on something as complex as a human mind and then claim to find it empty.

If you walk the footsteps of a stranger, you will learn the things you never knew you never knew. Though you seem to feel like you know what you don't know. And I'd consider that a somewhat boring attitude, although I'd be interested in how you came to feel that way.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#132
post #48

The hardest lesson for me is that, especially at large companies, things don't happen for good reasons. Meaning if you are used to the world making sense, you're in trouble. One example that jumps to mind is the flak I took for deciding to change my team from subversion to git. It sounds crazy even typing that!

Something I've had to learn with larger organizations is that the logic at the top isn't always conveyed to the bottom. Perverse incentives play heavily into this. An example of this is executive bonuses. Everyone knows that for long term health of a company short term gains should be subservient to long term gains. Bonus structures are typically structured for short term, which means that in order for an employee to…

This.

I have several mental models for this.

The first goes "most people are wrong about most things". You have to include yourself in that one or it just sounds arrogant, but it's true. Mostly we have a toy understanding of how anything really works if we are asked to scratch any deeper than the surface and the sheer amount of mental models required to begin to somewhat accurately map to reality vs. the search cost of finding those abstractions vs. the probability any individual is sufficiently motivated to pay the search cost. It's abysmal. So basically no one has truly good ideas. Yet some how the whole thing still grinds along.

You get what you incent. That would be another key model. Behavior follows incentives. Period.

Conflict of interest. That's another thing to watch out for. Loosely related to the idea of "subtext". People will say one thing but often mean the exact opposite of what they say. For example when someone says "I believe it is" this is a contradiction. The sheer timidity of the statement actually indicates that they harbor a hint of doubt. The subtext says "I acknowledge there is a possibility that it might not be and I cannot be 100% sure".

Power of ideas vs. Power of people. These are the fundamental two types of company culture that exist. If you're a thinker, you will be eternally frustrated in a power of people culture.

I'm probably rambling now, but there are a good many "human factors" that make companies awfully questionable at times.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#133

“How to win friends and influence people” is an absolutely wonderful book I wished I’d read 10 or 15 years before I did. Some important ideas - Just, get along with people. A bit reductionist but if you don’t place a high priority on getting along with people you certainly won’t learn how. It really is a habit, and it’s incredibly effective to remember the Cognitive Behavior insight that when you don’t get along with…

Throw away for obvious reasons. I find almost everyone intensely boring. How am I supposed to get along with people without feeling like a complete fraud? Small talk, feigning interest in kids, in sports, in wine, in whatever useless dull, pedestrian thing a coworker is into. I find that anyone who isn't a PhD (or could easily have been if they hadn't gone into industry) might as well be a paper shell. I can put on a…

> I find almost everyone intensely boring.

You're probably projecting. All your hyper-specific interests are intensely boring to ordinary people, so you retaliate by declaring them boring. It maintains your self-image.

People aren't boring, they're extremely interesting creatures that can be studied endlessly. Unlike the other great apes, you can even interact with them with human speech! So many possibilities, yet you're sitting here wasting it all.

You'd probably counter this by saying that looking at people this way is somehow immoral. I'm not going to argue with that, it's a useless argument to have.

> Small talk, feigning interest in kids, in sports, in wine, in whatever useless dull, pedestrian thing a coworker is into.

You don't have to feign interest, just let them talk about themselves and stay polite until you get what you want, which is either that the moment of conversation has passed, or something about them (or people in general) that is interesting. Either way, you're not going to be stuck in the conversation forever.

Childhood behavior in particular is an interesting topic, as is the decision to have (or not have) children. I know, you're not going to have children, but you have a rationale for that. What's that rationale? It's probably something highly misanthropic, outside the overton window of the ordinary person. Isn't it fun to see people's reaction to that? Well, perhaps not the best thing to do at work, but fun nonetheless.

> I find that anyone who isn't a PhD (or could easily have been if they hadn't gone into industry) might as well be a paper shell. I can put on a mask of civility and charm when needed, but all I really want is to talk to deeply self-aware people struggling with the boundaries of human knowledge.

Really? That's what you want to talk about over a coffee break? Come on...

> Nearly every time I work up the motivation to try to really get to know someone who I think I may have judged too quickly I find religiosity, passive consumerism, an unexamined life, something so distasteful that it takes ages before I can do it again.

Yeah, maybe don't be such a judgemental person. You clearly haven't examined yourself enough to recognize that this is a ridiculous attitude. You need to realize that this is a defense mechanism of your brain to save your fragile little ego from getting hurt. The flip side is that if you're overly judgemental, you'll be overly judgemental regarding yourself, as you clearly are.

> How do people put up with it?

Routine.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#134
post #29

Marshall Rosenberg nonviolent communications

I found NVC super valuable for opening my eyes to new concepts but challenging to implement in real life. When I tried it for the first time the other person got super angry because they thought I was making fun of them by asking about their emotions.

I don't think I've ever formally studied exactly what it is... but I feel like I use this technique somewhat naturally. I'll couch things in terms where I'm stating what I think, but in a non-offensive way where I'm just conveying information.

I find a lot of phrases like "I'm not convinced that..." soften things in just the right way that people get a lot less defensive or aggressive.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#135
Being nicer to people. Earlier in my career I was too competitive with other people in team's I worked in. Trying to do all the work, exclude others. It was a function of insecurity maybe.

I've learned, you need to uphold your teammates, make friends and allies.

Lonewolf teams are only ever as productive as one person. Large companies, Intel, Google, want you to act as a multiplier, not an asshole. After all they are paying everybody, not just you. If you are perceived as individually great but rotten in a team, you are simply perceived as rotten in a team.

Learn to make your team and everybody in it look good and you will see your greatest successes.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#136

“How to win friends and influence people” is an absolutely wonderful book I wished I’d read 10 or 15 years before I did. Some important ideas - Just, get along with people. A bit reductionist but if you don’t place a high priority on getting along with people you certainly won’t learn how. It really is a habit, and it’s incredibly effective to remember the Cognitive Behavior insight that when you don’t get along with…

Throw away for obvious reasons. I find almost everyone intensely boring. How am I supposed to get along with people without feeling like a complete fraud? Small talk, feigning interest in kids, in sports, in wine, in whatever useless dull, pedestrian thing a coworker is into. I find that anyone who isn't a PhD (or could easily have been if they hadn't gone into industry) might as well be a paper shell. I can put on a…

> How do people put up with it?

I was a bit like that. Things have happened in my life that made me unable to continue being happy only looking life in one way.

Luckily, I developed hobbies and extra activities that allowed me see how many skills are out there that I can develop and learn from people by just watching and having those simple interactions.

I still like philosophical debates but I find also amazing that some people can influence other people just with smiles and genuine happiness.

Life can be broad too.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#137
post #8

Not everyone responds the same. I hated when people would use fluffy language: "would it be okay if you could do X?" Dammit...just tell me to do X. I know you're not really asking me you're just trying to be nice for something that has to be done. Well... turns out just because I like to hear feedback or orders directly, doesn't mean everyone else does. Part of why your manager treads carefully is because they have t…

interesting point you brought up, I also hate "fluffy" languages. Besides "Would it be okay..." the other one that grinds my gears the most is when you ask around for a favour people be like "I'd love to but I can't because ", why can't you just tell me you can't or rather, not bother responding at all, I'd honestly feel better that way. But perhaps you're right... not everyone is the same and everyone likes to be treated well.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#138

“How to win friends and influence people” is an absolutely wonderful book I wished I’d read 10 or 15 years before I did. Some important ideas - Just, get along with people. A bit reductionist but if you don’t place a high priority on getting along with people you certainly won’t learn how. It really is a habit, and it’s incredibly effective to remember the Cognitive Behavior insight that when you don’t get along with…

Throw away for obvious reasons. I find almost everyone intensely boring. How am I supposed to get along with people without feeling like a complete fraud? Small talk, feigning interest in kids, in sports, in wine, in whatever useless dull, pedestrian thing a coworker is into. I find that anyone who isn't a PhD (or could easily have been if they hadn't gone into industry) might as well be a paper shell. I can put on a…

People bond/interact over shared experiences. You mention kids, I used to become extremely bored over listening to other peoples stories about their kids. Now that I'm a father myself I don't listen to the story about their kid with any more interest but I understand that they just want to talk about the trial's they may be going through at any particular point.

On passive consumerism, unexamined life... I'd suggest trying to understand who it is you're talking to. Sometimes that will be a fair judgement, othertimes you'll find that people are trying their best to earn for their families, look after others and simply want some luxury to unwind before getting back to whatever takes most of their waking hours. However without knowing who you're talking to thats all speculation.

On a practical level, I would suggest you should surround yourself with like minded people. Either work in academia or aim for companies with a higher bar to enter, that should help.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#139

“How to win friends and influence people” is an absolutely wonderful book I wished I’d read 10 or 15 years before I did. Some important ideas - Just, get along with people. A bit reductionist but if you don’t place a high priority on getting along with people you certainly won’t learn how. It really is a habit, and it’s incredibly effective to remember the Cognitive Behavior insight that when you don’t get along with…

Throw away for obvious reasons. I find almost everyone intensely boring. How am I supposed to get along with people without feeling like a complete fraud? Small talk, feigning interest in kids, in sports, in wine, in whatever useless dull, pedestrian thing a coworker is into. I find that anyone who isn't a PhD (or could easily have been if they hadn't gone into industry) might as well be a paper shell. I can put on a…

1. Realise, that you are judging people on what is important to you, and not them.

"No reflection, no relevant context, no mirror provided by an intimate knowledge of history or literature ... just nothing." These are things important to you, and it is perfectly fine to make this choice on who to associate with. Realise it is a choice, and this does not mean other values are less "important"

2. Realise, that it is impossible for each person to have complete knowledge. We are limited in what we can know and do. Therefore knowledge is distributed. If knowledge is distributed, every single person could have some gift to provide the world (and you) based on their own unique circumstance and history.

The question then becomes: are you paying attention? and is it relevant?

"The use of knowledge in society" written in 1945, makes a compelling case for the distribution of knowledge in society:

https://www.econlib.org/library/Essays/hykKnw.html

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#140

Admitting I'm wrong or that I screwed up, and likewise praising others when they're correct or have ideas I agree with. You would not believe how much smoother everything at work is when you learn to recognize early the signs that you're holding on to a bad opinion, or that you're headed towards a fuckup, and just saying it out loud. The praising / agreeing thing is a bit more complex. I've noticed more recently that…

This might sound strange but I wish I learned how to be more assertive and less apologetic/yielding. When I was in a 50/50 debate/discussions, in many cases I leaned towards myself being wrong and the other being right automatically...and later would feel discontent with everyone when I turned out I was right and should have pushed harder. But I guess dont know how to be assertive without being offensive or overly br…

That sounds super familiar. One time my team lead moved a meeting one day back for a week, even though I mentioned that the meeting was important every day. When we finally had the meeting, she was mentioned that I took care of it too late. In these situations I tend to be too much 'yes and amen', and I should push back some more.
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