Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Resources for introverted devs to learn workplace politics?

news.ycombinator.com

131–140 of 182 posts

Re: Ask HN: Resources for introverted devs to learn workplace politics?

#131
You will never stop being treated as a machine, especially in big corp.

As for the anxiety, stop trying so hard. Your goal is to find people that you actually like. You can’t really be friends with people that you despise or have nothing in common with.

Look for what people say or do in common areas as a kitchen or a chat and try to relate without pushing yourself.

Play the game on your own terms and keep in mind that it’s not really a competition. You’re trying to have fun.

Re: Ask HN: Resources for introverted devs to learn workplace politics?

#132
An Idea of How People react to me:

1. All men are born whith the habit of mirroring. It's the way childs learn.

2. When people mirroring you, they mirror your inner fealings subconsciously.

3. When your personal fealings are in a bad shape people see it and do not want to share them by the automatic mirroring process.

4. So first at all find ways to get in an inner good mood, find peace and love in your inner selve and the people will want to mirror you.

PS: That is why smile allone is an bad advice. The inner mood they will mirror would disface every trained smile technique person.

Re: Ask HN: Resources for introverted devs to learn workplace politics?

#133
post #114

Disclaimer: This is my own personal advice. It is different from what has been commented so far, but hope it might offer a different perspective or angle. Don't believe your labels, even one's you give yourself. Why do you think you are introverted? Is it because you took some Carl Jungean-esque test like the Myers Briggs and it said you were? Is it because your parents and teachers always said you were "shy"? Is it…

Also, an often overlooked topic of modern times, high speed internet pornography + chronic masturbation and its numbing effects on our neural reward system which makes things like eye contact and social activities unbearable and highly disconcerting.

This addiction isn't talked about much because it is almost a universal coping mechanism for guys beginning in adolescence, but you have nothing to lose in trying to abstain and see if your social anxiety melts away.

At worst you just determine that it's something else like depression and can go seek out a proper medical diagnosis. The crazy thing about the social anxiety inducing effects of chronic masturbation is that it is not taught in medical school and doctors do not diagnose or advise that it can be detrimental to people's lives, granted you are oblivious to the hormonal imbalances it causes w.r.t. neuroscience (orgasm induced prolactin release suppressing dopamine in neural pleasure/reward system).

Great Ted talk on subject: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wSF82AwSDiU

Re: Ask HN: Resources for introverted devs to learn workplace politics?

#134
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "How to Win Friends and Influence People" is a must-read I'm sorry - this advice, and most of your comment, is bad advice. I struggled with social anxiety for 10 or 15 years before I "cured" myself, and advice like this is what buried me. Reading books and going to a therapist can supplement your efforts, but if that's your main approach you're going to waste years - and when you talk, you're going to sound like a…

> I'm sorry - this advice, and most of your comment, is bad advice. I am diagnosed bipolar and ADHD, but meh I don't really care that much about labels. What helped me become stable and happy is going to a therapist. What helped me succeed in the workplace is reading books and applying what I learned. > Burying your head in books and overanalyzing your social interactions isn't going to solve your social anxiety. Go…

> and applying what I learned

This is a big part of it. This sort of improves with practice, but can also decay from lack of use. For me, I've found that regularly putting myself in a position where I talk to people I don't know helps a lot.

Re: Ask HN: Resources for introverted devs to learn workplace politics?

#135
post #72

I've responded to this sort if inquiry before, so forgive the copy-pasta: >> You sound like you have anxiety problems. What have you done to address your anti-social tendencies? Are you going to a therapist? Do you expect a fairy to fly into your house and magic them away? What job do you think exists where you don't need these skills? >> Having a therapist does not mean you are crazy, and you don't NEED to be crazy…

> "How to Win Friends and Influence People" is a must-read I'm sorry - this advice, and most of your comment, is bad advice. I struggled with social anxiety for 10 or 15 years before I "cured" myself, and advice like this is what buried me. Reading books and going to a therapist can supplement your efforts, but if that's your main approach you're going to waste years - and when you talk, you're going to sound like a…

I came to say the same about Dale Carnegie's "How to Win Friends and Influence People." His teachings are aimed at being a better salesperson and you should treat it as such. Taking it as self-help advice is going to lead to frustration. (As a guide to sales, it has mostly evergreen, if hokey, advice. It was first published in 1936, after all.)

I don't know if reading a book will fix everything in this situation, but if you really want one, get closer to the subject with "Secrets to Winning Office Politics" by Marie McIntyre.

Re: Ask HN: Resources for introverted devs to learn workplace politics?

#136
post #18

This will be a controversial one, but have you tried alcohol? The next time there’s a staff night out, go to it, drink, lose your inhibitions and talk to people.

Not that this comment is good advice, but that this comment is downvoted, but the comment about being a backstabbing, lying, traitorous arse survives… We have a long way to go as a species.

A drink with coworkers is probably okay. "lose your inhibitions", however… no. Remain in control of your faculties, please. I've had to help more than one coworker who has drunk too much, and it is obnoxious, and it does lower my opinion of that person.

Don't feel obligated to drink alcohol, either. I wouldn't question it, and there are plenty of drinks that visually aren't distinguishable from alcohol if you need a cover (e.g., coke vs. rum and coke, sprite vs. gin and tonic), and a drink in the hand is a nice stressball of sorts. (And I've used "I have to drive later." as a reason to not have alcohol, but still enjoy the company of others.)

Re: Ask HN: Resources for introverted devs to learn workplace politics?

#137
post #129
post #114

Disclaimer: This is my own personal advice. It is different from what has been commented so far, but hope it might offer a different perspective or angle. Don't believe your labels, even one's you give yourself. Why do you think you are introverted? Is it because you took some Carl Jungean-esque test like the Myers Briggs and it said you were? Is it because your parents and teachers always said you were "shy"? Is it…

this advice is good and bad at once in my live experience. Doing is the only way to transform. But not knowing who you are could get you on the wrong path. Introversion for example could be a learned habit but mostly lies in your genes.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Resources for introverted devs to learn workplace politics?

#138
My dear boy, [redacted]. I wish I was at your work place to help you but alas, I am not so this short message will have to suffice.

There is a lot of different parts for improving your social skills. Just getting out and talking to more people is probably a good way to start. But you probably want specific instructions? :) If your anxiety stems from some insecurities that you can help to reduce that would be a good idea to do. Starting going to the gym was really life-changing for me. Again, I wish I was there to show you how easy it actually is once you get past the initial discomfort.

But social skills, yes. Having a great group of friends whom you can talk to in regular basis I think is an excellent way of keeping those skills sharp. However, if you find yourself lacking on that part and have been for a long time then it's kinda difficult to start. What I recommend then instead is starting a hobby in which you can practise them. I have myself enjoyed improvisational theatre immensely! Hopefully you can find a group that is beginner friendly and you can get over your performing shyness (I am still not there and I have been doing it for two months).

Anyway, probably any hobby that requires high amount of social interaction is good. Impro, I think, forces you to build up that wit and social finesse which helps a lot with any basic interactions. Building up social skills *will* take time so don't give up when you feel that it's no working. Reading up a book or two won't help you I'm sorry to say, you have to get out and do it - whatever form it might be. It's doable, the only limit will be how far you are willing to go.

Re: Ask HN: Resources for introverted devs to learn workplace politics?

#139

I'm surprised no one has made this distinction, but you're really talking about three kinds of communication: 1. Functional communication about the job you're doing 2. Social conversations 3. Office politics There is overlap: #2 will help grease the wheels for #1 and #3, while #1 becomes #3 when a situation is dysfunctional/you rise in the corporate hierarchy. Despite the overlap, these are fundamentally different th…

> ... you don't have to be a social butterfly to do well in an office.

Indeed "social butterfly" types tend to be bad at communication in your sense #1 because they aren't clear about their terms, and don't expect it when others are.

But then highly technical nerd-engineers also often have the same problems; though perhaps for different reasons.

Re: Ask HN: Resources for introverted devs to learn workplace politics?

#140
post #58

Lots of good advice below but given your background you might want to consider approaching it like a project. Set reasonable objectives and goals, track progress, hold yourself accountable, and build on previous skills that you have acquired. Some other thoughts: - It's super important that you know that the concept of introvert/extrovert is pseudo science, same for "left-brained" / "right-brained"(Ex. https://www.in…

"Some other thoughts: - It's super important that you know that the concept of introvert/extrovert is pseudo science, same for "left-brained" / "right-brained"(Ex. https://www.inc.com/joshua-spodek/there-are-no-such-things-a...

The article does not offer any citations, and does not discuss the history of the concepts of introversion and extroversion. Even the most basic search reveals that the concept of extraversion is one of the factors of the Big Five personality model, the most influential model of personality that psychology has (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Five_personality_traits). There are literally thousands of studies that have used this model.

Post reply on HN