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Ask HN: Developers with kids, how do you skill up?

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Re: Ask HN: Developers with kids, how do you skill up?

#131

Post by edanm »

skrebbel wrote: post #98

This thread is slowly filling up with stories of enthusiastic workaholic parents who are disciplined and fit enough to take every single 15 minute break to sit down and get some code out. If you're able to code up a blog engine with one hand while holding your baby in the other, I envy you. I wish I could muster up the energy and discipline to do something like that. But to other readers: for many people this is not…

Agreed, except it's not an either/or situation.

I am one of those people who at least tries to do lots of extra learning. But firstly, it doesn't necessarily have to be programming: I learn things like math, but also other hobbies (e.g. drawing).

But whether I have time to do things "on the side", the BEST thing I do for my professional career is work for myself, and spend time working on projects that push the edge for me. However much "extra time" you put in outside of normal work hours, normal work hours still make up the bulk of your time, so you have to optimize those.

So like I said, I completely agree with your post, I just think it applies equally well to those people who try to cram in more work on the side.

Re: Ask HN: Developers with kids, how do you skill up?

#132

Post by orless »

I'm 37, I have two sons, 7 and 5yo. Me and my wife both work full-time, with ca. 1.5h commute time every day.

I still do a lot of open-source and side projects. These are my green boxes:

http://imgur.com/WTgz9TE

I don't stay late in the office, we're home around 6pm. We have an au-pair girl who helps with children (takes them to school/kindergarten and picks them up). I mostly do 1-2 hours after 9pm (after I bring children to bed) a couple of times a week and maybe a few of hours on the weekend. I guess that'd amount to around 6-10 hours a week altogether. I don't always get enough sleep. Sometimes when working on something very exciting I stay till very late (like 2am) and regret it the next day. I go to 3-4 hackathons a year, something I arrange with my wife well ahead of time. She knows it's important for me and is very supportive.

But to be honest I don't I do my OS or side projects for "skilling up", I do them as a hobby, because I like it. "Skilling up" happens primarily at work - my employer invests around 10% of the worktime in "skilling up", I have around 15-20 days of courses/workshops a year.

Re: Ask HN: Developers with kids, how do you skill up?

#133

Post by roryisok »

mahyarm wrote: post #119
microtonal wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At first, it will be hard. You may not have any spare time. After the newborn phase, the amount of spare time you have will slowly start to go back up again. Interesting... My experience has been the opposite, the first ~6 months they sleep so much that there is plenty of time to do things. Then you get a phase where they start to crawl and then walk around. In that phase, you have to be attentive all the time to ens…

There are various phases that I've observed: 1. They can't move stage. Depending on their sleep schedule, this is easy, or it's still tiring. 2. They can move. They still have the baby sleep schedule. No sleep, no time. 3. They have a normal sleep schedule. You can sleep. 4. They can play with other kids. A chance to save time, if you can use it! 5. They go school. You have time. 6. They are teenagers. You wish they…

> 3. They have a normal sleep schedule. You can sleep.

For all you new parents out there, this bit might seem like it will never happen, but it will, eventually. It might take longer than your friends kids, it might take longer than the books say, but don't despair - you'll get there

> 6. They are teenagers. You wish they spent more time with you.

My kids are only 1 & 3, but I'm very conscious of having learned the lesson of others on this. I believe spending time with your kids while they're happy to spend time with you is far more important than putting in extra hours at work or fixing bugs in your hobby projects

Re: Ask HN: Developers with kids, how do you skill up?

#134

Post by zwischenzug »

My kids are 9 and 10.

About 5 years ago I read 'Getting Things Done' and (despite my misgivings) it literally changed my life.

Since then I've:

- set up a JIRA to track ALL the things I work on

- written a book https://www.amazon.com/Docker-Practice-Ian-Miell/dp/16172927... (and am currently writing a second edition)

- started a blog https://zwischenzugs.wordpress.com/

- changed jobs

- become a speaker https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ian+miell

- started an open source project that helps me automation my spare time tech work: http://ianmiell.github.io/shutit/

And now I feel I've got MORE time than I had before I read it, and better time with kids etc..

The takeaway from this is that if you get serious about managing your time the benefits can be awesome.

Although when your kids are very young (we had two demanding ones under 2) don't be too hard on yourself - it's really hard!

Re: Ask HN: Developers with kids, how do you skill up?

#135

Post by gbog »

Just my case: 3 kids (7, 4, 1.5), I have all the time I want for my hobbies (mostly in music, prgoramming and gardening) and I get beers and loud music with friends every other Friday. I also have plenty of time with my kids, do a lot a different with them, often going to countryside together, going to buy second hand things, etc.

The recipe?

- A good stable programming job with zero travels and few overtime.

- A wife that understand that going to bars with friends is necessary for personal balance. She does the same.

- Zero "kid week-end activities", week-end is not filled with car trips to the piano or aikido lesson, it is filled with random activities with kids like gardening, fixing the house, lego, cartoons (only Miyazaki), books.

- We live in China so we have plenty of help, someone drives the kids to school, someone else cooks and take care of the youngest, yet another person do the house cleaning.

- I never forced myself into some activities I did not enjoy with my kids. I try and find cartoons and books that them and I can enjoy (thus the Miyazaki restiction). You do not owe anything to your kids. Having a good life balance, therefore being a happy parent, is the best gift you can give them.

Obviously this works well for me because I like kids in the beginning, I'm naturally attracted. Some could have to force themselves a bit more, but nobody should ever self-sacrifice to their kids: this is a poisoned gift to them, they will know, and have this terrible burden to carry thorugh their life, and might not pardon you.

Re: Ask HN: Developers with kids, how do you skill up?

#136

Post by deckiedan »

snuxoll wrote: post #76
laoba wrote: post #17

27 - Father of a 4 1/2 year old and a 7 month old. I really don't have time to program in the evenings much, but guess what? That's ok! You'll come to learn that there are more to life than "skilling up." I'm enjoying taking my oldest to after school activities and teaching her math a few years ahead of her age. Programming couldn't bring me any of the happiness that being with my children could.

Most people on HN spend 8 hours or more a day writing code, myself included. I enjoy programming, but there's things I'd rather be doing with my time after I've clocked out most days. Being with my daughter is probably one of the reasons I love my job, I get to work from home and my wife and daughter stay at home with me so I get to hang out with them on break/lunch, and there's no time lost with them on a commute. I…

Well, I think many of us on HN would not mind too much spending 8 hours a day writing code, but actually end up maybe if we're lucky spending 2 hours a day maximum writing code, and the rest is meetings, rebooting computers, trying to reproduce ill-written bug reports, reviewing others' code, reading docs, watching a test suite run flawlessly and then cursing because it's not catching a bug we know is there, installing software updates, reading some awful wordpress plugin code that the boss installed on the team blog to figure out why it broke on firefox but not IE8...

Coding is quite fun. A lot of the related guff that is part of software engineering in 'the real world' is quite frustrating.

Re: Ask HN: Developers with kids, how do you skill up?

#137

Post by johanneskanybal »

Your colleague could have been nicer and told you what things you'll gain instead and how that will mainly increase your employability if that's what keeps you up at night.

A few things that comes to mind is motivation, time management/prioritizing, social aspect of having perhaps the most important thing in your life in common with most other seniors, meaning.

these are not things to be afraid of but sure you'll have less time

Re: Ask HN: Developers with kids, how do you skill up?

#138

Post by 0n34n7 »

jstewartmobile wrote: post #96

One of the many great things about children, if you're not a total heartless bastard of course, is that having them really sharpens your mind as to what's important and what's not. Most of these things the HN crowd obsesses over are shit, and the things that replace those things will also be shit, and the thing you make with those things--even if it makes you fabulously wealthy--will also be shit, and if you don't be…

Bravo. When the shitshow is over somewhere north of 60 and you're sitting on a porch contemplating your life, it sure will be good to have a son or daughter (or both) to be sitting next to you.

Re: Ask HN: Developers with kids, how do you skill up?

#139

Post by bbcbasic »

jstewartmobile wrote: post #96

One of the many great things about children, if you're not a total heartless bastard of course, is that having them really sharpens your mind as to what's important and what's not. Most of these things the HN crowd obsesses over are shit, and the things that replace those things will also be shit, and the thing you make with those things--even if it makes you fabulously wealthy--will also be shit, and if you don't be…

It certainly does. I find it makes me more efficient or waste less time on things that don't matter. It forces optimization and applying the 80-20 to so many things.

Re: Ask HN: Developers with kids, how do you skill up?

#140

Post by UK-AL »

skrebbel wrote: post #98

This thread is slowly filling up with stories of enthusiastic workaholic parents who are disciplined and fit enough to take every single 15 minute break to sit down and get some code out. If you're able to code up a blog engine with one hand while holding your baby in the other, I envy you. I wish I could muster up the energy and discipline to do something like that. But to other readers: for many people this is not…

"Consider letting off-time be off-time and getting yourself a better job :)" - Those two conflict. Most jobs want the next buzzwords in the job description, which you aren't learning in the current job.
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