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Ask HN: What should I tell my cousin who wants to go to a “coding boot camp”?

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Re: Ask HN: What should I tell my cousin who wants to go to a “coding boot camp”?

#131

Post by DanBC »

dominotw wrote: post #112
DanBC wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do for me the web search that points women struggling for the right to work in coal mining http://www.womeninmining.org/ > be sent by hundred of thousands to war Women have campaigned hard to be allowed to go into "front line combat"; they're already sent to war: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/11302533/Wome... http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-military-women-idUSBRE... For the rest, do your own…

> http://www.womeninmining.org/ thats not a site for women * struggling for the right to work in coal mining*, contrast that to womenwhocode.

https://www.womeninmining.org.uk/

> WIM (UK) is a non-profit organisation dedicated to promoting and progressing the development of women in the mining and minerals sector.

> Created in 2006, WIM (UK) now counts over 1,500 members, from all corners of mining-related businesses and professions.

Re: Ask HN: What should I tell my cousin who wants to go to a “coding boot camp”?

#132

Post by ravenstine »

Dev Bootcamp circa 2013 alumnus here.

I can't speak for how bootcamps are now, or the state in which DBC exists in 2017, but I can say that my cohort(s) were made up of lots of men and women and people ranging from border-line genius level to those with no programming experience. Those who came out and landed careers were the same individuals who had the drive and the passion, plain & simple. A person looking to be handed knowledge on a silver platter, eventually leading to a golden key to land a job, will be sadly mistaken no matter what kind of school they go to.

As others have said, it would be good for her to start learning to program on her own so she can see if she actually has any interest. It will sound cruel for me to say this but, if she hasn't already taken the initiative herself, the chances are low that she's cut out for it. Note that what I said just now is strictly my opinion. It certainly doesn't mean it's too late for her to begin now, but the drive is super important. This is coming from someone who went into a field knowing very little about it but expecting that passing the courses was going to land them a high-paying job. I switched to programming because I was forced to look in my heart and decide whether or not I was going to struggle to bestow bad art on to the world(as if there isn't too much already) for some short-lived glory. Plus I was already programming and already had the drive; I just needed reality and some good people to give me a good kick in the right direction for me.

Determining the legitimacy of a boot camp is difficult. I don't know that you really can. But what I got out of my boot camp was not so much an education but the space and the resources to accelerate my process into taking a full dive into web development, Agile, etc. On a technical level, there's almost nothing that a boot camp does that you can't get out of an online course. Heck, you could form your own "boot camp" with a Meetup group and spend maybe 1/100 the amount you'd spend on a boot camp tuition. A person has to go into a boot camp expecting a space, resources, and some leadership, rather than a concrete curriculum. At the end of the day, you can work for a company and not even include your education on your resume so long as the work that you have done stands out.

Re: Ask HN: What should I tell my cousin who wants to go to a “coding boot camp”?

#133

Post by thisisforyou »

Taking for granted most of the other answers here ('make sure she has tried and likes coding' et c.): Have her look up reviews of the program on https://www.coursereport.com/ and www.switchup.org. Have her visit local meetups and conferences, there will surely be students/grads there that she can talk to and can get eyewitness reports from. Have her ask around to disinterested third parties that have had contact with the program and see what their appraisal of the program is. Have her contact the program and see if they will provide contacts to grads that she can talk to (while they may be biased, a 'yes' is much better that a 'no'). (Full disclosure: I went to a bootcamp and got a good job very soon afterwards which I have had for a year. True, some programs are shady, but these seem to shut down quickly. A bit of research seems like all that needs to be done to make a decision and if it works for her there is no reason to worry.)

Re: Ask HN: What should I tell my cousin who wants to go to a “coding boot camp”?

#134

Post by bokglobule »

Actually I think this self-learning approach is a great example of what it takes to be a great developer regardless of background (or formal training).

http://signaltower.co/jennifer-dewalt/

She built one project each day for 180 days learning a bit more each day. She chronicled her mistakes and successes. HN had a post on it at the time and the majority of developers that responded were very supportive.

Re: Ask HN: What should I tell my cousin who wants to go to a “coding boot camp”?

#135

Post by cgriswald »

Kluny wrote: post #119
cgriswald wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's entirely possible that the women just hustled harder, thus explaining while all the qualified ones were hired. The problem is with the one who failed the class. What do we know about her? We know that she either was too lazy to pass the class--implying she doesn't hustle--or she is simply unable to pass the class, implying she isn't qualified. Combine this with the current political climate, in which a company l…

It's also possible that she had qualifications in the industry she was hired for besides web design. It's not suggestive of bias at all - it simply tells us that there's something about the candidates that we don't know.

Anything is possible, but gender bias seems a much likelier conclusion than that she was hired as a dev because she has skills other than dev.

Re: Ask HN: What should I tell my cousin who wants to go to a “coding boot camp”?

#136

Post by bbcbasic »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #113
bbcbasic wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope still doesn't matter.

It doesn't matter if you aren't looking for a career in that field. If you are choosing between fields or are looking to increase your income, how many people got good-paying, permanent jobs is highly important. It is also important if you are spending money that might be better invested in something else (such as a reliable vehicle or a down payment on a house if you live in the Midwest). If you simply want the lear…

Then you need to assess more deeply than % employed because you don't know how motivated they where. For example a ReactJS course could increase your chance of getting a job from 60 to 80% due to your motivation, but only 30% of that class got a job because most of them are just course hopping looking for a career change.

Re: Ask HN: What should I tell my cousin who wants to go to a “coding boot camp”?

#137

Post by StClaire »

liquidise wrote: post #116
StClaire wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh... I don't normally do this, but any chance you guys are hiring? I'm in Denver looking for an entry level position. I can do machine learning

We actually are hiring, but i have no idea how to reach you. If you go to my blog[1], my email is at the bottom of every post. 1: https://blog.benroux.me

Perfect!

Re: Ask HN: What should I tell my cousin who wants to go to a “coding boot camp”?

#138

Post by OJFord »

discombobulate wrote: post #82
jen729w wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're my initials. I'm a 40 year old white English guy called John. I believe my life thus far has been tremendously more easy than a 40 year old black woman's would have been. Do you disagree? Edit: here's a concrete example. I've basically been offered every job interview I've gone for. I'm good at my job, no doubt, but in some of those cases I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have been the strongest candidate. But - for…

I would fire someone for hiring based on a physical characteristic (for knowledge work). It's idiotic. It sounds no better than random.

If you can distinguish it from the average, then it's worse than random (that is, going with or against the average case uniformly at random).

Re: Ask HN: What should I tell my cousin who wants to go to a “coding boot camp”?

#139

Post by OJFord »

DanBC wrote: post #109
owebmaster wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it is not. You pointed a false equivalence. Do for me the web search that points women struggling for the right to work in coal mining, be sent by hundred of thousands to war and things like that. This don't happen (and shouldn't!). We are animals, after all, and the biology demands from us (both woman and man) different things. If men could get pregnant, I could bet with you that this would be a good reason to h…

> Do for me the web search that points women struggling for the right to work in coal mining http://www.womeninmining.org/ > be sent by hundred of thousands to war Women have campaigned hard to be allowed to go into "front line combat"; they're already sent to war: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/11302533/Wome... http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-military-women-idUSBRE... For the rest, do your own…

> Women have campaigned hard to be allowed to go into "front line combat"

That's rather a separate issue, though. That's not just alleged bias, it's categorically blocking them based on evidence suggesting lower effectiveness of mixed-gender teams in combat roles.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but what's being campaigned against is very different from 'technical companies are not hiring enough women'.

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