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Ask HN: Why do companies outside the US pay so much less?

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Re: Ask HN: Why do companies outside the US pay so much less?

#131

Post by cinemaisdope »

SmokyBourbon wrote: post #84
sigi45 wrote: post #55

I don't really care how much someone in USA earns. As a software engineere in germany you are earning good money. There are no killings in cities, affordable health care, high quality living standards, university costs 150$ for 6 month, no donald trump, 30 days real holiday (i take them, everyone does, every year), seldom over hours, parental leave. Btw. IT is more than google, apple, facebook and twitter. And no we…

It's worth pointing out that, while health care in Germany is better than most of Europe, it is well below the standards Americans are accustomed to. Americans have a much higher survival rate for cancer and other serious diseases due to advanced diagnostic procedures and higher pay for physicians. Americans are comfortable asking doctors for more tests and services when the doctor doesn't think its necessary because…

Would you mind putting sources for these claims? There exist many contradictory claims [1].

1) https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/cross-check/cancer-spen...

Re: Ask HN: Why do companies outside the US pay so much less?

#132

Post by acchow »

closeparen wrote: post #128
acchow wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TBH, when making $250k+ as many engineers in top bay area companies are, "standard of living" costs don't really affect you that much anymore... They don't take into account the luxuries of the exorbitant lifestyle you can afford. And there aren't really any other cities in the world you could move to where you can still just be a programmer and afford the same lifestyle (and still have a lot of money saved up every…

As a $250k Bay Area household, you are not even starting to scratch the position of a $90k (i.e. $50k accountant + $40k teacher) household in a Midwestern metro, i.e. comfortably afford to own a 3-bedroom in a pleasant neighborhood with good public schools and a sub-30-minute commute to the central business district. The rest of the standard-of-living costs (food, toiletries, etc.) would be vanishingly small, but hou…

Stop trying to own. Just rent.

Re: Ask HN: Why do companies outside the US pay so much less?

#133

Post by atmosx »

bgia wrote: post #123
ThePhysicist wrote: post #37

A part of the gap can be explained by the way that work is organized in the US compared to Europe. Let's compare e.g. Germany and the USA: https://data.oecd.org/germany.htm https://data.oecd.org/united-states.htm If you scroll down to the Economic indicators, you will see that on average people in the US work around 1.700 hours a year, whereas people in Germany (and many other European countries) work only 1.400 hour…

My wage in the US is about 3 times what I'd be making home in France. 3 times. Trust me I'm not working 3 times as many hours as my friends over there. Actually it's quite the opposite.

But... You're not living in France. There are many people who would rather be making 3 times less and living in France.

It is a trade off, that's all there is to it, e.g. If you, God forbid, have get into a severe health condition in the US, you might very well be making 5x more, you're still going to get broke pretty soon because social healthcare is virtually nil.

Re: Ask HN: Why do companies outside the US pay so much less?

#134

Post by [deleted] »

jrmurad wrote: post #74

Everyone throwing around "free" healthcare as a valid explanation for this wage gap needs to account for taxation levels too. using estimates via Google: "average programmer salary usa" -> $84,360 "average programmer salary in sweden" -> $54,264 According to http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2012/10/focus-4 , average effective taxes in the USA (including social security) are 25%... but 35% in Sweden. Even…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Why do companies outside the US pay so much less?

#135

Post by phil21 »

atmosx wrote: post #133
bgia wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wage in the US is about 3 times what I'd be making home in France. 3 times. Trust me I'm not working 3 times as many hours as my friends over there. Actually it's quite the opposite.

But... You're not living in France. There are many people who would rather be making 3 times less and living in France. It is a trade off, that's all there is to it, e.g. If you, God forbid, have get into a severe health condition in the US, you might very well be making 5x more, you're still going to get broke pretty soon because social healthcare is virtually nil.

Someone making 3x (as a programmer) can very easily afford very high quality health insurance. When you have it, it actually does work.

Chances are they are already covered by their employer though.

The lack of "affordable" healthcare really isn't a concern for the six figure tech worker class - those salaries imply quality health insurance as part of the package.

Re: Ask HN: Why do companies outside the US pay so much less?

#136

Post by closeparen »

acchow wrote: post #132
closeparen wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a $250k Bay Area household, you are not even starting to scratch the position of a $90k (i.e. $50k accountant + $40k teacher) household in a Midwestern metro, i.e. comfortably afford to own a 3-bedroom in a pleasant neighborhood with good public schools and a sub-30-minute commute to the central business district. The rest of the standard-of-living costs (food, toiletries, etc.) would be vanishingly small, but hou…

Stop trying to own. Just rent.

Look at the volatility (and especially the upward trend) in the last ~20 years of rents here. Renting is a fine strategy if you accept:

- That your stay here is temporary, you will be priced out within a few years, and any lease renewal could be the one that necessitates a cross-country move.

- That until you reach that breaking point, your "anything but housing" budget will decrease rapidly as rents rise much faster than wages.

It's a fun thing to do in your early twenties when your only worldly attachments are a backpack and a laptop, but people are not AWS spot instances. I do not intend for my eventual children to be scheduled onto communities preemptibly.

Owning is desirable because even if the payment is a stretch, it can get no worse, so barring catastrophe, your life is indefinitely sustainable. Renting in any volatile market is a bad idea if you're looking for a stable, long-term home rather than a short-lived adventure. Of course, there's nothing wrong with doing some adventuring while young and single.

Re: Ask HN: Why do companies outside the US pay so much less?

#137

Post by MulliMulli »

SmokyBourbon wrote: post #84
sigi45 wrote: post #55

I don't really care how much someone in USA earns. As a software engineere in germany you are earning good money. There are no killings in cities, affordable health care, high quality living standards, university costs 150$ for 6 month, no donald trump, 30 days real holiday (i take them, everyone does, every year), seldom over hours, parental leave. Btw. IT is more than google, apple, facebook and twitter. And no we…

It's worth pointing out that, while health care in Germany is better than most of Europe, it is well below the standards Americans are accustomed to. Americans have a much higher survival rate for cancer and other serious diseases due to advanced diagnostic procedures and higher pay for physicians. Americans are comfortable asking doctors for more tests and services when the doctor doesn't think its necessary because…

I lived in the US until 2014 and moved back to Germany after that - from my personal experience and those of friends and colleagues it is quite the opposite of what you are saying.

Re: Ask HN: Why do companies outside the US pay so much less?

#138

Post by ThePhysicist »

bgia wrote: post #123
ThePhysicist wrote: post #37

A part of the gap can be explained by the way that work is organized in the US compared to Europe. Let's compare e.g. Germany and the USA: https://data.oecd.org/germany.htm https://data.oecd.org/united-states.htm If you scroll down to the Economic indicators, you will see that on average people in the US work around 1.700 hours a year, whereas people in Germany (and many other European countries) work only 1.400 hour…

My wage in the US is about 3 times what I'd be making home in France. 3 times. Trust me I'm not working 3 times as many hours as my friends over there. Actually it's quite the opposite.

Well I'd wager this is probably due to the high demand of programmers (supposing you're working as a programmer) in the US and the fact that you're very good at what you're doing.

Re: Ask HN: Why do companies outside the US pay so much less?

#139

Post by cr1895 »

synicalx wrote: post #125
aplummer wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Probably"! The gun death rate is just over 10x higher in the US per capita (10/100000) v (1/100000), it's a massive difference.

Ok? Cool? If you can be bothered to go back and re-read my last comment, you'll notice I never once mentioned guns or even expressed a passing interest in comparing gun death rates.

You literally said, "if you ignore people shooting up malls" in the context of Germany being peaceful.
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