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Ask HN: Why aren't there middle class cars shaped like Ferraris?

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Re: Ask HN: Why aren't there middle class cars shaped like Ferraris?

#131

Post by stcredzero »

avenoir wrote: post #97

Typical super-car designs embrace wider chassis and lower-sitting suspension. Both are impractical for daily driving. Not to mention the absence of space for occupants or lack of trunk space. Try to sit in any coupe with the second row of seats and you'll instantly feel like a sardine. I think an even bigger issue is that you can't have a car with the super-car design but without the matching horsepower. They just wo…

Typical super-car designs embrace wider chassis and lower-sitting suspension. Both are impractical for daily driving.

Didn't affect my Honda CRX as a daily driver one bit! (Aside from a bit more care with clearance.)

Re: Ask HN: Why aren't there middle class cars shaped like Ferraris?

#132

Post by lobster_johnson »

justin66 wrote: post #123
lobster_johnson wrote: post #101

I don't know about supercars, but what about simply sleek, small sports cars? Something like the Lotus Elan, Triumph Spitfire or the Porsche 911. First-gen Mazda Miata is the only low-end car that I know that actually looks reasonably sleek and designed (the second-gen looks like a stupid ordinary car). It's no 911, but it has a nice retro charm. A well-designed sports car doesn't need lots of power or anything else…

There are four generations of Miata. I think the newest looks better than most of the stuff on the street today, honestly. (how do you not like the Miata RF?) It's all shockingly generic looking now, IMO. Somehow, incredibly, Maseratis have become popular where I live, but they seem to have done it by looking like Toyotas. (at least they still sound incredible) Even Aston-Martin and Jaguar make stuff that barely rate…

The RF is pretty good looking, though the newer generations tend to have "evil reptilian eyes"-type [1] headlights and bodies with a kind of blunt chunkiness that a lot of modern cars have. I assume the intention is to impart a sense of muscularity, but to me that just looks misguided and embarrassingly macho, like the car equivalent of body building. I like the round front of the version shown in this 2012 article, was it ever made? [2] The RF's hood has those muscular side ridges which I think look terrible. Edit: The 2005 model has a round front like that [3], and is less evil.

(Agreed about the rest. I don't really know cars, so before I commented I just googled the various Miata generations and seem to have misread Wikipedia.)

[1] http://blog.caranddriver.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/2016...

[2] http://www.autoevolution.com/news/next-gen-mazda-miata-loses...

[3] http://www.moibbk.com/images/mazda-mx5-miata-black-3.jpg

Re: Ask HN: Why aren't there middle class cars shaped like Ferraris?

#133

Post by tezza »

Styling costs money.

The Ferrari is styled by Pinnfarina.

A mate at Ford said Pinnfarina are just too expensive for most cars.

The Peugeot 306 Cabriolet was styled by Pinnfarina[1] and it showed. Awesome looking car

[1] http://www.fridae.asia/autoclub/20091102.html

Re: Ask HN: Why aren't there middle class cars shaped like Ferraris?

#134

Post by TylerE »

jbmorgado wrote: post #126
TylerE wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 4C has a base price of $55,000. You can spec most mid-sized crossovers into that price territory. They build 3,500 of 'em per year. That's very high compared to say, any given Ferrari or Lamborghini model.

I think the difference might lie in the income level in USA vs EU, but a middle class car in EU is about 25K-35K euros after all taxes.

Average new car price (NOT including taxes and fees) in the US is $34,400.

http://mediaroom.kbb.com/record-new-car-transaction-prices-r...

Re: Ask HN: Why aren't there middle class cars shaped like Ferraris?

#135

Post by jbmorgado »

TylerE wrote: post #134
jbmorgado wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the difference might lie in the income level in USA vs EU, but a middle class car in EU is about 25K-35K euros after all taxes.

Average new car price (NOT including taxes and fees) in the US is $34,400. http://mediaroom.kbb.com/record-new-car-transaction-prices-r...

Yes, but what I meant is what do you consider middle segment for cars in the USA?

In EU, a Volkswagen Golf for instance is middle segment, but perhaps in the USA is considered lower segment and therefore the difference.

Re: Ask HN: Why aren't there middle class cars shaped like Ferraris?

#136

Post by [deleted] »

jbmorgado wrote: post #126
TylerE wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 4C has a base price of $55,000. You can spec most mid-sized crossovers into that price territory. They build 3,500 of 'em per year. That's very high compared to say, any given Ferrari or Lamborghini model.

I think the difference might lie in the income level in USA vs EU, but a middle class car in EU is about 25K-35K euros after all taxes.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Why aren't there middle class cars shaped like Ferraris?

#137

Post by tornadoboy55 »

tsunamifury wrote: post #124
durandal1 wrote: post #113

In the documentary Objectified (recommended!), a BMW designer brings up the point that a car design should express what the car is . If there's a mismatch between the look, and how it feels to drive, it will be rejected by customers.

Yes, this is the very practical definition of "tacky" design. It's when something visually promises something that it isn't in performance. Form and function are very much tied together and a car that looks like a Ferrari but feels like a civic would cause a negative cognitive dissonance

Something that's a bit more understated like a Maserati but driving like an average sedan would be mostly fine though.

Re: Ask HN: Why aren't there middle class cars shaped like Ferraris?

#138

Post by TylerE »

jbmorgado wrote: post #135
TylerE wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Average new car price (NOT including taxes and fees) in the US is $34,400. http://mediaroom.kbb.com/record-new-car-transaction-prices-r...

Yes, but what I meant is what do you consider middle segment for cars in the USA? In EU, a Volkswagen Golf for instance is middle segment, but perhaps in the USA is considered lower segment and therefore the difference.

We buy way way way more luxury cars and suvs than you do. These are not considered vehicles for the wealthy either.

Small cars do not really sell here.

(For reference, I actually bought a new VW Golf R about 2 weeks ago... for roughly $41,000, just as a single data point).

Re: Ask HN: Why aren't there middle class cars shaped like Ferraris?

#139

Post by voltagex_ »

Ifkaluva wrote: post #81

The premise of the quedtion is wrong--they do make these cars. See the Scion FRS. Also Subaru has a car that looks just like it, but I cannot remember the name. Also I would argue the Mazda Miata targets this style, and I have seen a Honda car that looks quite similar to the Miata as well.

the 86, FRS and BRZ are all very similar: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_86

Re: Ask HN: Why aren't there middle class cars shaped like Ferraris?

#140

Post by jeremy7600 »

Haven_Monahan wrote: post #33
wiredfool wrote: post #17

Do you remember the Pontiac Fiero? Nice looking car (for the time), underperformed, had a habit of catching on fire.

As mentioned upthread & here, yes, the early Fieros did have a habit of catching fire. There were primarily two reasons for this: GM refused to budget for a new engine for the car-it never really wanted to have a two-seater outside the Corvette, but after the second gas crisis, the turkish engineer who'd been agitating for what would become the Fiero sold it to management as an economic commuter car. The idea was to…

Radiator is at the front of the car, not in the engine compartment. If you bottomed out, you could break your coolant lines, as I had done with mine 20 years ago.
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