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Ask HN: CTO wants me to leave

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Re: Ask HN: CTO wants me to leave

#121

You need to hire an attorney, one who works in business litigation (if you can find someone specializing in minority shareholder disputes, that much the better). Right now. If you're delaying on this point out of some idea of wanting to "try to fix things first" or "not wanting to be the bad guy," you're just shooting yourself in the foot and downing blood thinners to keep the wound from clotting. Working with an att…

That last paragraph is gold, OP. Use it to negotiate a clean exit where you are fairly compensated for your contributions.

Re: Ask HN: CTO wants me to leave

#122

I had something like this happen to me (on a larger scale) - I folded, and regretted it for years. Firstly - go straight to see a lawyer. Do not consider anything else before you have done this. Play hard, don't blink! Secondly. If things don't go your way, play the long game and take your time. Make sure that they know that this will not be resolved quickly, and that having this hanging over them will frustrate thei…

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Re: Ask HN: CTO wants me to leave

#123

Leave. Seriously, walk away. Here are some thoughts: 1. The situation is poisoned. If you stay and force a battle of wills, it will be hugely distracting in a way that adds no value to the company (and remember, building a great company is why you did this in first place), not to mention personally painful for you. That the CEO and CTO have lost confidence in you means it's just going to suck from here on out. Even i…

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Re: Ask HN: CTO wants me to leave

#124
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> .. the CTO has probably been whispering poison in his ear about you. This just has to be true.

FWIW, he may just have been saying exactly what the OP says himself: "I have improved significantly in the last few months from where I was (generally unstructured development, no tests, poor formatting / naming etc., but functional, generally coding to working with others instead of by myself) but he has said that it's not enough. We have hired another coder who I get along well with and I have learned from." There'…

We took commit access away from our CEO once (who was also an owner). It was fine.

The fool who tells the business owner that he should probably leave _his own business_ may as well go and tie the noose to hang himself because that's what he's doing here.

Fuck what is right, fuck what the CTO thinks. The business owners always have the last say. This CTO is toast.

Re: Ask HN: CTO wants me to leave

#125
I think you need to be realistic: this situation has gone toxic and it's not likely that you're going to be involved in a few months time. Once you have internalized this and you're still breathing, it will become easier to see the positives.

As others have said, it's highly likely that the CTO and CEO are working together on this. The best thing you can do is - with the assistance of your lawyer - extract yourself as quickly and cleanly as you can manage. Try not to burn bridges; legitimately hope that they succeed. After all, you will retain a substantial percentage of the company.

I can't know the details but from the way you describe the situation, I'm somewhat empathetic to the position that the CTO finds himself in. Your only claim to power is that you were there at the beginning. While that's not a small detail, it's often true that the people who are vitally important to a company in the beginning end up being minor players in the future. See: Craig Newmark or the early support reps at eBay.

In short: you're a founder who is probably no longer playing an irreplaceable role in your company. The CTO wants a meritocracy, and when you're a small team shooting for growth, a founder with just enough tech chops to be a distraction is a major source of risk. To this end, I am surprised that they didn't give you notice already.

I don't say any of this to be mean, it's just that these relationships are hard and most people let awkwardness keep them from telling the hard truth.

Re: Ask HN: CTO wants me to leave

#126
post #119

You need to hire an attorney, one who works in business litigation (if you can find someone specializing in minority shareholder disputes, that much the better). Right now. If you're delaying on this point out of some idea of wanting to "try to fix things first" or "not wanting to be the bad guy," you're just shooting yourself in the foot and downing blood thinners to keep the wound from clotting. Working with an att…

First and foremost, involving attorneys costs everyone a lot of time and money. Unless you want exactly that (maybe out of a desire to "punish" them), it's better to just leave.

Any competent attorney will tell you that you should never litigate on principle (such as "punishing" them). If that's your only reason, many attorneys will choose not to take you on as a client right then and there. All the court can do is use money to attempt to redress your grievances, assuming you win.

But that's not why you need an attorney right now. Even if you're never going to file suit, an attorney will help you navigate the waters and push for the best possible outcome in your situation. Maybe that's compensation for a clean exit, or simply putting an outright stop to the CTO's machinations. I don't know.

Yes, they cost money. But this is already a legal matter. It became one the moment the CTO started to try and squeeze the OP out. Spending the money on an attorney now is simply an attempt to avoid losing more money later on down the road.

Not talking to an attorney at this point is nothing short of willful ignorance. It won't stop the squeeze-out, nor will being able to say "I didn't bring in the lawyers!" somehow make things all better when you're out the door, up the creek, and without the stupid fucking paddle.

Re: Ask HN: CTO wants me to leave

#127
The biggest question is what was you and your co-founders' legal agreement in the bylaws/operating agreements regarding equity given in exchange for assigning your IP (earlier code hackery) to the entity?

If you don't have any sort of a defined equity arrangement in legal contracts, then you have a problem. It's time to speak with an attorney.

If you have some sort of share vesting schedule which will grant you an equity ownership percentage that you consider "fair" then you should consider moving from your current operational position as a software engineer to somewhere else if you want to stay in operations. Otherwise you can sit it out, keep your equity, and participate at the board level.

There will be lots of advice to just "forget about it and walk away". I believe the advice to essentially just "sit back and take it" to be idiotic. If your original positioning on the team was to be "the guy who programs the first iteration of the software that gets us to market" and you failed at that, I can understand where they're trying to push you out as a co-founder. You essentially were a technical co-founder who only partially fulfilled his/her original promise. No offence. In their eyes, you misrepresented yourself, even if that's untrue because they scope-creeped way past your skill level. But the fact is that there WAS some weight that was pulled by you. So you deserve at least partial compensation, whether or not its in the form of equity (if this was promised to you) or payment, or both.

There's some important variables here that have't been covered (mainly current legal agreements) but the main point I'd drive home is stand up for yourself and don't allow yourself to get power played. Yes the situation is sour, but you should be able to get the rest of your founders to agree that you DID contribute something, (as evidenced by the fact that the CTO wants you to leave in the future, not now) so you deserve some equity/payment even if you end up just leaving with it and participating in a liquidity event in the future.

TL;DR If no legal agreements: attorney. If legal agreements w/vague equity terms: attorney. If legal agreements w/ defined equity program you can live with: leave operations, participate at the board level, get bought out at a premium, or just hold equity and wait for a liquidity event.

Make sure there's some restrictions keeping the board from authorizing 1000000000000000 shares and diluting you out too. Good luck!

Re: Ask HN: CTO wants me to leave

#129
post #119

You need to hire an attorney, one who works in business litigation (if you can find someone specializing in minority shareholder disputes, that much the better). Right now. If you're delaying on this point out of some idea of wanting to "try to fix things first" or "not wanting to be the bad guy," you're just shooting yourself in the foot and downing blood thinners to keep the wound from clotting. Working with an att…

First and foremost, involving attorneys costs everyone a lot of time and money. Unless you want exactly that (maybe out of a desire to "punish" them), it's better to just leave.

Spoken like someone who's never been involved in a sticky legal situation.

The money you save hiring a good lawyer almost always justifies the money spent, especially in a situation where you have forces mounted against you.

Not only can they help you with "do this, don't do that" advice, they are very strategic in positioning and can offer incredible advice based on years of experience.

Good lawyers generally see situations on both sides of the coin because they have clients on both sides of the coin, and hiring one can give you volumes of insight and perspective. Will it cost you $5K? Yes, but that $5K now might get you $8M two years from now...

Re: Ask HN: CTO wants me to leave

#130

Leave. Seriously, walk away. Here are some thoughts: 1. The situation is poisoned. If you stay and force a battle of wills, it will be hugely distracting in a way that adds no value to the company (and remember, building a great company is why you did this in first place), not to mention personally painful for you. That the CEO and CTO have lost confidence in you means it's just going to suck from here on out. Even i…

> Leave. Seriously, walk away.*

* With as much equity as possible. From the other comments, it appears you've put in cash to bolster this company. Don't walk away without getting a good share of it. If they think they can succeed with out, don't let them do it without giving you what's rightfully yours.

It's fine to walk away. But don't leave your money on the table.

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