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Ask HN: Can we please slow down the stories about Edward Snowden?

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Re: Ask HN: Can we please slow down the stories about Edward Snowden?

#121

Post by clarky07 »

Kylekramer wrote: post #54
swombat wrote: post #28

Please post more about Snowden, PRISM, NSA, GCHQ, and all the rest. I will upvote every one of them. For those who think that "we all know essentially how this will end", think about what the world would look like if every major change had been met with this kind of pitiful attitude. Every revolution, every change for the better, has come out of people rejecting that sentiment. It's not too late to turn away from the…

I agree with the sentiment, minus Snowden. We should be talking about this issue. Snowden is at this point immaterial to the larger issues unless he leaks more details. Discussing himself distracts from his purposes. His movements and people's opinions about his movements (which dominated HN this weekend) are of no consequence to PRISM and the NSA. The honest truth is we are no closer to discovering the truth about w…

Snowden and his movements are not immaterial. I won't repeat why as the top comment does a good job of explaining it so I'll just link it - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5933175

Re: Ask HN: Can we please slow down the stories about Edward Snowden?

#122

Post by pvnick »

ebbv wrote: post #22
yuvadam wrote: post #6

Do you honestly believe we've understood this surveillance complex enough that we can keep on with our lives? Why accept that "PRISM [won't go] away" or that "Snowden's fate is grim"? Honestly? Is this cause not worth fighting for anymore?

Most of these stories themselves are at best tangentially related to the larger issue. Upvoting them or reading a story about Edward Snowden's favorite brand of chicken pot pie is not doing anything to fight for civil liberties, though it will give views to garbage web sites like Business Insider and its ilk.

Nobody is talking about chicken pot pie. I don't appreciate your obvious straw man attack. The stories about a political refugee trying to escape the grasp of the United States, a country which stands for freedom and human rights, is arguably one of the most important stories of our lives.

Re: Ask HN: Can we please slow down the stories about Edward Snowden?

#123

Post by pvnick »

jchung wrote: post #64
swombat wrote: post #28

Please post more about Snowden, PRISM, NSA, GCHQ, and all the rest. I will upvote every one of them. For those who think that "we all know essentially how this will end", think about what the world would look like if every major change had been met with this kind of pitiful attitude. Every revolution, every change for the better, has come out of people rejecting that sentiment. It's not too late to turn away from the…

Mass upvoting helps exactly nobody. It's slacktivism, not activism. If you feel strongly about this cause, I would encourage you to stop mass upvoting, and get involved in the real world. Perhaps your action would merit its own post to HN, and something that would inspire others to join you in action. You might end up doing something amazing.

Shameless plug for http://restorethe4th.net, a planned mass demonstration on July 4th to restore the fourth amendment.

Re: Ask HN: Can we please slow down the stories about Edward Snowden?

#124

Post by davidw »

evanlivingston wrote: post #115
davidw wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This issue matters and it's germane to HN on several fronts. If you don't feel the same, just don't click on the links. I agree that it matters, and it's important, and so on. I also feel that it's something of a watershed in the site's history in that there are a lot more unrelated political articles appearing in its wake, with negative consequences for the quality of discourse and content here. I feel that, long…

HN is one of the leading tech news sites. The recent events clearly demonstrate that citizens need to be more involved in the political process, or at least less blasé. As leaders of the tech community, do we not have an obligation to act responsibly, to be informed? I don't believe a shift in HN to be more political would be a shift toward lower quality content, but instead a shift for the better, onto more importan…

So, if articles do not appear here and get lots of upvotes, we are not informed or involved?

Do you think there would be any space left on the front page for startups & tech if the site focused on politics? Many political issues (and there are a lot of them) are objectively far more important than tech & startups, so it would be logical for them to crowd out the former content.

Re: Ask HN: Can we please slow down the stories about Edward Snowden?

#125

Post by mcherm »

swombat wrote: post #28

Please post more about Snowden, PRISM, NSA, GCHQ, and all the rest. I will upvote every one of them. For those who think that "we all know essentially how this will end", think about what the world would look like if every major change had been met with this kind of pitiful attitude. Every revolution, every change for the better, has come out of people rejecting that sentiment. It's not too late to turn away from the…

I love the sentiment, except for one thing. You say "I will upvote every one of them." Please don't. Instead, if you care so deeply about this issue, read all the submissions and then upvote only the GOOD ones. That way, those who are less interested and only see the stuff that makes the "front page" will see the good articles and their time will be better spent.

In short: if you think this is important stuff hackers will care about, vote it up, but smartly, not blindly.

Re: Ask HN: Can we please slow down the stories about Edward Snowden?

#126

Post by tmuir »

avar wrote: post #104
cletus wrote: post #91

I'm not normally in favour of "political" stories on HN but this one is an exception for three reasons. Firstly, mass surveillance and the end-run around the Constitution is a technological as well as social and political issue that also touches on the hot button issue of privacy and how the legal system is increasingly at odds with the Internet (eg distinguishing between "US persons" and "foreign persons" is increas…

> Ecuador too of all countries is taking an anti-US stance. It's a > strange country to claim to be supporting human rights If you're already on unfriendly terms with the U.S. it would seem to be in your interest to undermine them and cast them in a bad light. You don't need noble intentions to score political points by accepting a high-profile refugee fleeing from a government largely hostile to you.

The strangeness he's referring to is on Snowden, not Ecuador. Of course Ecuador is doing this to spite the US. However, Snowden shouldn't be surprised when it becomes convenient for Ecuador to change its mind once he is no longer useful.

Re: Ask HN: Can we please slow down the stories about Edward Snowden?

#127

Post by [deleted] »

gyardley wrote: post #72
gori wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh give up. "Edward Snowden's favorite brand of chicken pot pie" "Kim Dotcom braids his hair!" "Julian Assange orders Cherry Coke instead of regular!" "Elon Musk buys three rare white leopards!" Do you really like to argue by ridiculing others this much? There hasn't been a story even resembling anything like this, people have actually upvoted things they found interesting. More links means more people are writing ab…

Good lord, there was something up here this morning that talked about the pizza and fried chicken Snowden had for his birthday. Before that, it was 'his girlfriend's a pole dancer and here's the cache of her deleted blog'. This guy stabbed his own cause in the back by going public, doing press interviews, and doing whatever else he could to make the story all about him, and for some inexplicable reason y'all want to…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Can we please slow down the stories about Edward Snowden?

#128

Post by mcherm »

gyardley wrote: post #72
gori wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh give up. "Edward Snowden's favorite brand of chicken pot pie" "Kim Dotcom braids his hair!" "Julian Assange orders Cherry Coke instead of regular!" "Elon Musk buys three rare white leopards!" Do you really like to argue by ridiculing others this much? There hasn't been a story even resembling anything like this, people have actually upvoted things they found interesting. More links means more people are writing ab…

Good lord, there was something up here this morning that talked about the pizza and fried chicken Snowden had for his birthday. Before that, it was 'his girlfriend's a pole dancer and here's the cache of her deleted blog'. This guy stabbed his own cause in the back by going public, doing press interviews, and doing whatever else he could to make the story all about him, and for some inexplicable reason y'all want to…

> This guy stabbed his own cause in the back by going public, doing press interviews, and doing whatever else he could to make the story all about him

Really? Because I don't think "the goal" is to get detailed articles written up in blogs that will show up on Hacker News, I think "the goal" is to get the story out to as many people as possible and raise its profile in hopes of influencing governments.

And you have to understand the way that the press works. They've already WRITTEN a story about PRISM... so they can't write another one, because it's not "new". However, they CAN report on the daily movements of this guy, Snowden. And they can publish every interview he gives. And each time they can (will!) review just what it is that he revealed.

I think that, intentional or not, Snowden has successfully managed to bring media attention to this issue in a way that previous efforts had not.

Re: Ask HN: Can we please slow down the stories about Edward Snowden?

#130

Post by kposehn »

In general I'm in agreement with the OP.

The majority of the stories, even those where Snowden is claiming something, are just that: stories. There is little deeply interesting or worthwhile here.

They spark serious discussion for sure, but one thing I've seen is that many of us on HN are taking Snowden's claims at face value.

This disturbs me. We should be sitting down and asking ourselves "what information here is valid? How can we even trust this guy? Can we analyze the source, the data and the conclusions to find inconsistency and think through what is really going on here?"

Ask any veteran spook and they'll tell you to trust your instincts. My (non-spook) instincts - and those of many people I know - are screaming "there is something really, really wrong with this story."

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