Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Can't get hired – what's next?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 164 posts

Re: Ask HN: Can't get hired – what's next?

#121

Post by rich_sasha »

silvercymbals wrote: post #55
rednafi wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know where you are but 150k is decent at best in most US and Western European big cities. So if someone has a few years of experience under their belt, the expectation isn’t too complacent.

Look up the average salary of H1B visa holders... I don't really have any interest arguing what a respectable salary on HN is. The recruiter I was working with clearly stated that $180-200k given my resume was reasonable. America isn't europe.

I sold my house last year. I looked up the average price growth over the 8 years I owned it for, did some maths and came up with a value. Estate agents even vaguely corroborated it - they thought it was high but within range.

Then I started having viewings on the house, and no one liked it at the price. People had really weird comments: at this price the garden should be bigger, there aren't enough rooms downstairs, the staircase is too wide. Objectively, whatever that means, it was a lovely house - good location, modern, good condition, nice garden, light and spacious. Nothing wrong with it.

Long story short, in the end I sold it for 15% less than the "fair market price" I came up with, and also 10% below the real estate agents estimate.

It stung, but it's a reminder that the market value is what someone is willing to pay. If no one wants to pay my fair market value then it's not a fair market value, period.

I'm just a rando on the internet, but I think the attitude that you are definitely "worth X" but no one wants to pay you this might be counterproductive. Your empirical evidence says you are apparently worth Y. Markets change, recruiters lie etc.

Start with that as as an evidential baseline and ask yourself what could increase your "value" - be it how you present your experience, how you interview, or what skills you could add or niche you could explore.

Re: Ask HN: Can't get hired – what's next?

#122

Post by OnionBlender »

shawn_w wrote: post #114

Back when the dot com bubble burst I ended up in the same position and had to switch careers in order to keep the rent paid, and programming became just a hobby instead. I kind of prefer that as everything I've heard about modern commercial software development sounds like hell (especially if, like me, you have no interest in web stuff). Being able to work on what I want to, at my own pace, in languages I like, is ni…

Which career did you switch to?

Re: Ask HN: Can't get hired – what's next?

#123

Post by ProfessorLayton »

silvercymbals wrote: post #32
gridspy wrote: post #24

If you want to stay in the bay area and leverage your experience, perhaps you want to become a technical co-founder for someone? Otherwise it might make sense to move out of the bay area to where there are lower costs of living and then lower your salary expectations to match. Bear in mind that being a good corporate drone or middle manager requires different soft skills and attitude than being the CEO of your own co…

I've considered this. But I really just want a real salary. If I could find this and make $120k in the bay (barely survivable) I'd consider it - but I would really prefer to have a normal job with a dependable salary. I was previously in the bay, but I'm back in Austin for a while - which fortunately is dirt cheap.

I’m sorry but this is wild, but you want:

- A salary that is ~15% higher than the median Bay Area household, which consists of ~2.6 people. And as an individual you’re calling it “barely survivable”.

or a

- A salary that is 40% higher than the median household in Austin TX, which consists of 2.7 people. The median individual makes about $52,223 in Austin.

Am I reading this right? On top of this you seem to have a negative and entitled attitude, based on your other responses.

Re: Ask HN: Can't get hired – what's next?

#124

Post by radixdiaboli »

silvercymbals wrote: post #95
fzwang wrote: post #92

From your comments, it seems like there's a lot of internal and external issues you're dealing with. Internally, your sense of self worth is very much tied to your compensation/wealth. The recent rejections have triggered anxiety / negative self-reflection. The lack of a job/income is really straining your confidence. Externally ... 1) It's actually a shit job market. 2) Your startup experiences don't really help sig…

This is a fantastic analysis. I didn't want to go here, but I do have direct knowledge from two final rounds I was passed over for that h1b visa holders were selected instead of me and paid less. (I knew employees at these startups) Part of why I'm just considering doing something else is the fact that so much of this work is going to be outsourced. Most of my friends who are actively running startups don't even both…

> I find it ironic how on HN anyone advocating to push themselves into a position where they have more options (more income) is met with accusations of being "entitled" or outlandish.

> Let's say my skillset isn't as "senior" as I think

The people from the first sentence were trying to get you to understand the content of the second sentence.

Re: Ask HN: Can't get hired – what's next?

#125

Post by fzwang »

silvercymbals wrote: post #95
fzwang wrote: post #92

From your comments, it seems like there's a lot of internal and external issues you're dealing with. Internally, your sense of self worth is very much tied to your compensation/wealth. The recent rejections have triggered anxiety / negative self-reflection. The lack of a job/income is really straining your confidence. Externally ... 1) It's actually a shit job market. 2) Your startup experiences don't really help sig…

This is a fantastic analysis. I didn't want to go here, but I do have direct knowledge from two final rounds I was passed over for that h1b visa holders were selected instead of me and paid less. (I knew employees at these startups) Part of why I'm just considering doing something else is the fact that so much of this work is going to be outsourced. Most of my friends who are actively running startups don't even both…

It seems like the cashflow situation will rule out some options, at least for the moment, like boostrapping etc. Contracting could be a temporary option, esp for US companies that need in-person support with good language skills. This would blunt some of the competition from abroad.

Regarding learning "out of the tar-pit", it's hard to give out specifics without knowing more details about your experiences. But it might be worthwhile to reach out to other senior engineers in your network, not to ask for a job, but to ask for advice about switching from entrepreneur/founder to employee. It could be a good way to build rapport and identify what you should be learning next.

Your health obviously takes priorty over everything else. Medical problems can really push you into despair if left unaddressed. Money you can always make back later.

Re: Ask HN: Can't get hired – what's next?

#127

Post by burnt-resistor »

gridspy wrote: post #24

If you want to stay in the bay area and leverage your experience, perhaps you want to become a technical co-founder for someone? Otherwise it might make sense to move out of the bay area to where there are lower costs of living and then lower your salary expectations to match. Bear in mind that being a good corporate drone or middle manager requires different soft skills and attitude than being the CEO of your own co…

I'm an IC6 SRE and can't afford to live in the SF Bay Area where I grew up. The area around the 100th meridian west is much cheaper. The Bay Area has become a bastion of rich assholes from around the world gentrifying the cost of living and home prices, and old people with Prop 13 who never move while everyone else younger than them languishes paying much more property taxes. Boomers, on average, ruined the world with their selfishness and failed to pay it forward as the Greatest generation did for them.

Re: Ask HN: Can't get hired – what's next?

#128

Post by schmookeeg »

Dumblydorr wrote: post #3

Adjust your definition of a “real career” as one making over 150k. Another adjustment is thinking 4 months is a long time, especially given you know you could improve interviewing. Check out data fields. I’m in data analytics, no I don’t make 150k, but it’s a good living and I consider it real. I do a lot of good and save government a lot of money with my tech skills.

I wonder what % of the country (much less the world) make less than 150k and this thread is just shitting all over them. 90%? 95%? 98%?

I'm embarrassed by this whole thing.

Re: Ask HN: Can't get hired – what's next?

#129

Post by antisthenes »

leakycap wrote: post #117
silvercymbals wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

When the average US salary is something like 45k, $150k is a high salary especially when you have no plan or clear path to the goal Based on your comments in this thread, I'd suggest that soft skills could use a refresher and might be the difference between getting something and getting passed over again next time - good luck, it isn't easy

To be fair to the OP, the median (so lower than average) salary for a single person with a bachelor's degree (in USA) is ~$80,000, give or take a few bucks.

The average is likely higher, and then higher again for higher COL areas.

So it's not unreasonable for OP to expect to start at this level, and work their way up to $150k over the next 5-7 years.

Re: Ask HN: Can't get hired – what's next?

#130

Post by antisthenes »

platevoltage wrote: post #111
mothballed wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently paid a guy about $10k to roof my house. $3500 materials, ~$6500 labor. Maybe 32 hours labor tops, it is a hella small house. Might be worth looking into. He was cheaper than pretty much anyone else.

Man, it seems like yesterday we were telling coal miners to "learn to code". Now software devs are being told to become tradesmen.

The tradesmen in higher COL areas seem to have no problem charging dev hourly rates ($150-200/hr) and also upcharging ridiculous amounts on materials (one of them tried to charge me $75 for a $3 capacitor).

Maybe there is something to that after all.

Post reply on HN