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Ask HN: Whats the modern day equivalent of 80s computer for kids to explore?

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Re: Ask HN: Whats the modern day equivalent of 80s computer for kids to explore?

#121

Post by adrian_b »

talkingtab wrote: post #27

A Rasberry Pi. The number of things you can do with these cheap computers is astronomical. You can have a Debian Linux computer and then learn networking, programming, run your own small website. Then start on hardware. Connect up various hardware devices, maybe starting with just a fan. Turn on. Turn off. A second monitor, larger disks. Webrtc. On an on. You never know what kinds of things kids will like. They may l…

A Raspberry Pi or similar may be a choice only because it is cheap, but otherwise it does not provide any better learning experience than any Intel/AMD personal computer with Linux or FreeBSD.

In order to have a computer that can be completely understood, like one from 40 years ago, the best would be a development board for some Cortex-M microcontroller, e.g. one of the STM32 Discovery kits.

These are very cheap and have complete documentation, unlike a personal computer or a Raspberry Pi.

On such a development kit it is easy to learn anything that could be learned on an 80's computer.

There are 2 disadvantages when compared to the old computers, these development boards do not have manuals intended for newbies, so someone technically competent has to guide, at least in the beginning, whomever wants to experiment and learn with the kit, and secondly, the development kits are not stand-alone, you need a personal computer on which to compile the programs and load them on the kit.

Despite the 2 disadvantages, such a development kit with an ARM Cortex-M microcontroller is the best way to recreate the experience of an old computer.

Using the development kit for direct access to hardware can be combined with learning programming on the host computer, e.g. for GUI programs or games.

Re: Ask HN: Whats the modern day equivalent of 80s computer for kids to explore?

#122

Post by Grimburger »

pests wrote: post #112
Grimburger wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A pi by itself, eh I don't know. A pi + a full kit like breadboard/cables, LCD/LED display panels, camera, microphone/speaker, air sensors, IR sensors, gyros, etc. Now that's got a chance. It's certainly not going to be for all kids but for those with an inquisitive mind once you set them up and show how to display output in various ways they will start to see the potential. From there you can move onto basic rc hobb…

I agree. PI by itself is boring. You plug it in and you have... a shitty desktop. Need some sensors and associated electronics or just drop down a level to an arduino so theres no OS baggage and things are less magical.

Arduino has the very approachable scratch as a language + beginner friendly ide and a good community but I feel like a pi or similar board that you can drop ubuntu on and run some python scripts opens up more possibilities.

Then point them at chatgpt and see what happens haha.

Re: Ask HN: Whats the modern day equivalent of 80s computer for kids to explore?

#123

Post by pests »

Grimburger wrote: post #122
pests wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. PI by itself is boring. You plug it in and you have... a shitty desktop. Need some sensors and associated electronics or just drop down a level to an arduino so theres no OS baggage and things are less magical.

Arduino has the very approachable scratch as a language + beginner friendly ide and a good community but I feel like a pi or similar board that you can drop ubuntu on and run some python scripts opens up more possibilities. Then point them at chatgpt and see what happens haha.

But what does that give you that a regular desktop can't provide?

The only novelty of a PI or a audrino is the pins.

Re: Ask HN: Whats the modern day equivalent of 80s computer for kids to explore?

#124

Post by mikewarot »

I suggest an Arduino kit, with some servos, photocells, LEDs, switches etc. There's no screen on it, so they have to get used to the idea of dealing with inputs and outputs. This forces you to think deeply about what's going on.

Later, they could hook up an LCD screen and keypad to do things, if they want.

Later they could move away from the world of 5 volt I/O and into the world of 3.3 volt and less Raspberry Pi, etc, where things get trickier in terms of noise, etc.

Re: Ask HN: Whats the modern day equivalent of 80s computer for kids to explore?

#125

Post by danielbarla »

creer wrote: post #107

Scratch is amazing. https://scratch.mit.edu/ And a slightly different direction than what you describe. Nowadays a complete "basic environment" on a computer (say a Raspberry Pi, sure why not, but perhaps simply a used laptop) feels too complicated. Far more complicated than DOS was. Scratch is actually both interesting for kids and a seriously competent programming environment. They can explore; they can implement b…

I recently ran across Juno: New Origins [1] (formerly SimpleRockets 2), which is a game where you build your own rockets / cars / drones / etc. Not only is it a great introduction to basic physics and maths concepts, the game also has a visual programming language that is so similar to Scratch I initially thought it must be some kind of plugin for Scratch.

The beauty of this for novices is that it's a relatively gentle, and not overly open entry into the world of programming. Initially, you may use it to hard-code and automate some repetitive tasks, like setting camera and target settings on your rockets. Soon after, you might create a script to auto-launch a rocket, with various degrees of intelligence or hard-codedness. Later on, you might create auto-hover, auto-land and similar scripts, which also get you into the world of basic physics equations, possibly various coordinate systems, etc.

All the while, you're essentially having fun, and can always leave the programming to the side for a while if you're stumped. I think it's an ideal way for kids to learn a lot of basics.

[1] https://store.steampowered.com/app/870200/Juno_New_Origins/ (the Steam page seems to do a better job of explaining the game

Re: Ask HN: Whats the modern day equivalent of 80s computer for kids to explore?

#126

Post by f1shy »

seanthemon wrote: post #114
f1shy wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are lots of things to do. Lots of programming things mixed with other domains like music. Just one example: https://sonic-pi.net/tutorial.html There are tones of SBC, plus arduino. Calliope and others. Scratch for little kids, lego mindstorms. I know boys between 11 and 13 learning Python, programming some simple games. There are also lots of robots and HW. What there is not (or I do not know it) is something l…

Frankly what you're asking for in your last sentence is just a Pi

And with which SW? I mean, I can do “anything” with C++, but doing what I did in Basic in 100 lines would need 1000, plus downloading libraries and frameworks and reading several 500+ pages manuals. If your kid is not an english native speaker, you have yet another hurdle.

Re: Ask HN: Whats the modern day equivalent of 80s computer for kids to explore?

#127

Post by speps »

mfa1999 wrote: post #14

How about these? [1] Build in the spirit of the 80s home computers and with options of 8/16/32 bit (6502 and 680x0) and an active community. [1] https://c256foenix.com/

Jan Beta review of F256 Fenix: https://youtu.be/57FuA8YuXn0

Another similar computer (Z80), but cheaper: https://youtu.be/PRcipJ-k_aY

Re: Ask HN: Whats the modern day equivalent of 80s computer for kids to explore?

#130

Post by ilaksh »

ilaksh wrote: post #3

Modern: Building games in Roblox? You could get a Raspberry PI (or any computer with an emulator) or a real 80s computer. Set the PI up with whatever emulator. And maybe a book like this one https://colorcomputerarchive.com/repo/Documents/Manuals/Hard... Getting Started With Extended Color Basic. Or set up a normal Linux without installing a GUI. Or set up an emulator with DOS Box. Or install nothing but Unity/Unreal…

https://colorcomputerarchive.com/repo/Documents/Manuals/Hard...
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