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Ask HN: Why is hiring so dehumanized, and what can be done?

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Re: Ask HN: Why is hiring so dehumanized, and what can be done?

#121

Post by blindriver »

glass3 wrote: post #18

Applicants could organize in a guild. The members can rate each other in a friendly environment with constructive feedback. Then, the guild knows who are the best matches for a given job. Employers at first communicate with the guild and only have to evaluate 5-10 candidates. All interviewed candidates pool their knowledge about the employer so the next suggestions from the guild will be even better matches. Medieval…

Terrible, horrible idea.

The main benefit of our current system is that it's very equitable. I'm the furthest thing from an SJW, but I do believe that in essence, the current way we interview helps people at the lower rungs of the ladder. People with no CS background can learn and if they pass the test, they can work at a FAANG. There's no guild, there's no politics, there's just performance on a well-defined measure.

It's not the greatest system, but it's also extremely fair and gives a shot to people who wouldn't normally get a shot.

Re: Ask HN: Why is hiring so dehumanized, and what can be done?

#122

Post by bheadmaster »

p1esk wrote: post #101
BeetleB wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine you keep applying for jobs and you get none because all the existing employees are recommending their friends who are inferior to you in skills, but the company is prioritizing referrals. This is, and has always been, a real problem: That your ability to get good positions is limited not by your skill set but by your ability to network.

Generally if you have good skills people will want to network with you, unless you're anti-social or have some other personality issues. Keep in mind that technical skills are just one component in a good coworker.

This comment reveals another problem - if a person is not interested in networking for the sake of it, they're slapped with the "anti-social" or "personality disorder" labels.

Anecdotally, some of the best engineers I've worked with despise the networking culture and prefer to keep to themselves, while some of the most "social" and "networking" people were grifters who didn't have much skill, but knew how to appear like they do.

Re: Ask HN: Why is hiring so dehumanized, and what can be done?

#123

Post by loa_in_ »

noirbot wrote: post #23
sfe22 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, you get it after 90 days, by then they will probably know if it is a bad fit.

Sure, but if it's a bad fit, it's still tied to you. Your team or some other team is now blaming you for their bad hire and you don't get the money.

Assuming that company wants best hires they are glad to give a go to anyone in the possible candidate pool sooner or later, and knowing anyone in same line of work (surely) is a positive bias to viability so they should thank you. What makes you feel like it's about blame?

Re: Ask HN: Why is hiring so dehumanized, and what can be done?

#124

Post by glass3 »

lapcat wrote: post #69
glass3 wrote: post #18

Applicants could organize in a guild. The members can rate each other in a friendly environment with constructive feedback. Then, the guild knows who are the best matches for a given job. Employers at first communicate with the guild and only have to evaluate 5-10 candidates. All interviewed candidates pool their knowledge about the employer so the next suggestions from the guild will be even better matches. Medieval…

> The members can rate each other in a friendly environment > Employers at first communicate with the guild and only have to evaluate 5-10 candidates. Yeah, no. It's not friendly when there's an obvious hierarchy and competition for jobs involving large amounts of money. And who decides the criteria? How are other developers even supposed to "rate" you if they haven't worked with you? Putting all software engineering…

It doesn't have to be one central guild. There can be a competition of guilds, each with their own criteria.

Guilds already exit as networks of friends who recommend each other. Hiring is only dehumanizing for those who are not part of an informal network. With guilds, there could be accessible knowledge to everybody on how to be or become a good professional.

The fact that programmers haven't already organized themselves in guilds suggests that they are not the right layer of abstraction. It remains funny that programmers create formal processes and structures for everything but not for themselves.

Re: Ask HN: Why is hiring so dehumanized, and what can be done?

#125

Post by Marrand »

Beaver117 wrote: post #120
jameshush wrote: post #118

Hiring is VERY much still humanized. The vast majority of jobs go unposted. Friends get friends work. In the last seven days I’ve had three loose acquaintances ask me if I knew of engineers and designers looking for work in three different countries. The key to always be at the top of people’s lists is: 1. Be excellent at your job. 2. Be kind and interested in other people’s problems. 3. Say “hi” when you don’t need…

What do you mean by the vast majority jobs go unposted? Are you really so good leadership will get additional headcount just to hire you for a nonexistent position?

He probably means that when it comes time to hire they will ask existing employees if they know any good candidates before they start making posts on job boards

Re: Ask HN: Why is hiring so dehumanized, and what can be done?

#126

Post by [deleted] »

georgeecollins wrote: post #50

This isn't a fix exactly, but for a long time now the only jobs I ever take are either with people who know me or people who know someone who recommended me. Like a lot of people here I had to randomly apply to all kind of jobs and got rejected for practically everything when I started. So my suggestion would be: think about people you know or could meet and ask them if they like where they work? Are they hiring? The…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Why is hiring so dehumanized, and what can be done?

#130

Post by expertentipp »

klooney wrote: post #104

Humanity is a lawsuit risk, cold algorithmic process is armor.

> Humanity is a lawsuit risk

Only in some litigative societies. On the course of my career I can count lawsuits by employees on the fingers of one hand, and these were cases of glaring misconducts by the employer.

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