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Ask HN: Is it possible to have a structured work day in software dev?

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Re: Ask HN: Is it possible to have a structured work day in software dev?

#121

Post by yrgulation »

bamboozled wrote: post #91
yrgulation wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So I just adapted my schedule to that aim and it was a success. Stockholm syndrome, maybe a bit of ptsd. I’d not follow such advice @op. Find a place that respects you.

What are you talking about? Honestly, on my late meeting days, I just work about 3 hours and attend the meetings late at night, because that's what's expected of me and that's enough. The meetings can be intense so I just save myself for them and generally enjoy my day. My company respects me a lot, but it also respects the fact that it's not all "one timezone is important and others suck" We have to meet with people…

That does sound like your employer respects you. Three hour work days on late meeting days sounds like a good deal. I jumped the gun and assumed you have to work extra, which is sadly the expectation in many places that have such late night meetings.

Re: Ask HN: Is it possible to have a structured work day in software dev?

#122

Post by ipsi »

vladvasiliu wrote: post #57
fleischhauf wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

its still possible to do meetings (timewise) between europe and asia at for both acceptable hours though,societal pressure aside

It can be, but people have to be a bit flexible on both sides. The most extreme example I have is myself, in France, having calls with people in New Zealand. That's an 11-hour difference. Basically, we'd have them at 8 AM CEST, which is 7 PM NZDT. 8 AM is somewhat early by Paris standards (usual office day begins at 9 - 9:30, with many people coming in around 10) but it's still feasible. I don't know how the day is o…

Well, 10, 11, or 12 hour difference, depending on time of year. Having been on the other side of that (in NZ, dealing with UK people, so 11-13 hour difference), 8PM isn't really tolerable - that's two-three hours past normal finishing time, so you either nip out for dinner before the meeting, or you're eating super-late. Plus missing bedtime for kids, possibly having a longer commute home (public transport frequency falls off a cliff after peak hours), although maybe a much shorter commute if you drive.

It worked out for me because I worked 1PM to 11PM or so (my bosses weren't thrilled about it, but not a lot they could do), but I'd have been very unhappy if I was working a normal 8 - 5 or 9 - 6 day.

These days I live in Europe and won't work outside my standard hours, with very rare exceptions, backed up by some fairly strong laws (Germany, so not as strong as France, I think) and some interesting wording choices in my contract.

Re: Ask HN: Is it possible to have a structured work day in software dev?

#123

Post by RamblingCTO »

bamboozled wrote: post #95
RamblingCTO wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your manager is bad. Really bad. This. Find a new job. That's everything you need to know. /e: also, "I feel so burned out and anxious all the time, not because of overwork, but due to a lack of formal structure in my work day." Please do it asap and treat yourself to at least two weeks of personal time before switching jobs. You're shortening your lifespan here because someone else is doing a shitty job (and I not…

This is assuming it's easy to find a new job, I don't think it's all that easy right now.

I'm hiring developers in Georgia (Europe) and Germany right now! No US at the moment though. And there will be others, especially in Europe that have trouble hiring new developers.

Out of interest, why do you feel it would be difficult right now, wherever you're from?

Re: Ask HN: Is it possible to have a structured work day in software dev?

#124

Post by bradlys »

RamblingCTO wrote: post #123
bamboozled wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is assuming it's easy to find a new job, I don't think it's all that easy right now.

I'm hiring developers in Georgia (Europe) and Germany right now! No US at the moment though. And there will be others, especially in Europe that have trouble hiring new developers. Out of interest, why do you feel it would be difficult right now, wherever you're from?

In the USA - it's not trivial currently (or really ever). Leetcode and system design - regardless of economic environment - are always difficult to pass the interview loop for. With 2 mediums or 1 hard being the standard in Talent is oversaturated at all levels in the USA while cost of living just keeps going up and up and up. This is why leetcode and system design are pushed so hard - they filter out a ton of candidates on arbitrary shit that you will likely never do in your day job... and if you do, you won't have to do it in less than an hour.

Add on that lots of companies aren't hiring and every company knows it - you're not going to get the best offers.

Re: Ask HN: Is it possible to have a structured work day in software dev?

#125

Post by lm28469 »

Find a smaller company, all my friends are either in big tech companies or small tech startups, they all complain about working hours, stress, being on call, &c. I earn 30% less but I have none of that bs, very chill 9-5, no techbro bs, no investors to please

Re: Ask HN: Is it possible to have a structured work day in software dev?

#126

Post by jhrmnn »

bunderbunder wrote: post #106
cinntaile wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a sense you outsourced your pressure to a country where it is less socially accepted to refuse I guess?

I work on a team that is split across North America and Europe, and or standard is that we all avoid meetings outside our working hours. It’s understood that European folks try to schedule Europe-only meetings in the morning so that there is plenty of time available in the afternoon for NA colleagues, and conversely NA folks keep their mornings open for team meetings. I personally shift my work day to starting at 7 s…

How do you deal with the 9 hour difference between Europe and West Coast?

Re: Ask HN: Is it possible to have a structured work day in software dev?

#127

Post by satisfice »

“Starting out on your own” is not a way to work less, but you have a lot more control. To avoid burnout, work must be meaningful and it must be within your reasonable control.

I have that as an independent, yet I don’t have any fixed schedule and I basically work every day. (I work three to six hours a day in a mode that feels like work.)

Some of my work is coding or coding-like activity. I also teach, which does have a fixed schedule when underway.

Re: Ask HN: Is it possible to have a structured work day in software dev?

#128

Post by malux85 »

jhrmnn wrote: post #126
bunderbunder wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work on a team that is split across North America and Europe, and or standard is that we all avoid meetings outside our working hours. It’s understood that European folks try to schedule Europe-only meetings in the morning so that there is plenty of time available in the afternoon for NA colleagues, and conversely NA folks keep their mornings open for team meetings. I personally shift my work day to starting at 7 s…

How do you deal with the 9 hour difference between Europe and West Coast?

I work remotely from New Zealand for a company in Ireland

I altered my work hours to 3AM to 12 noon. It is amazing.

I catch everyone in the office at the end of the day for meetings. I pick up and finish and work they need done, I get 3-4 hours of deep work every day when they are all gone.

And then I finish at noon, so I can go exercise and enjoy the day working on my startup.

Bed at 6PM to wake up at 3AM

Re: Ask HN: Is it possible to have a structured work day in software dev?

#129

Post by RamblingCTO »

bradlys wrote: post #124
RamblingCTO wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm hiring developers in Georgia (Europe) and Germany right now! No US at the moment though. And there will be others, especially in Europe that have trouble hiring new developers. Out of interest, why do you feel it would be difficult right now, wherever you're from?

In the USA - it's not trivial currently (or really ever). Leetcode and system design - regardless of economic environment - are always difficult to pass the interview loop for. With 2 mediums or 1 hard being the standard in Talent is oversaturated at all levels in the USA while cost of living just keeps going up and up and up. This is why leetcode and system design are pushed so hard - they filter out a ton of candid…

Yeah, I agree on that. We do 30 minutes chit-chat and a second round discussing code skills with the tech lead. Especially because the job markets in Germany, Georgia and Ukraine (the countries we're working with) are competitive af. But I wouldn't want to anyway. Also no leetcode, system designs etc. I always prefer a bit of fresh code and a github link.
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