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Ask HN: Why is the printer industry so scammy?

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Re: Ask HN: Why is the printer industry so scammy?

#121

Post by speed_spread »

codepoet80 wrote: post #63

Its a dying industry, trying desperately to scrape and claw the last remnants of revenue out of a dwindling customer base. In the fight for survival, they've all gotten mean and nasty. As others have said, stick to laser -- and preferably older models. I have a B&W Brother laser from 2007 that still pounds out the pages and needs new toner roughly once a year -- and happily takes aftermarket cartridges without compla…

I don't think printers are a dying industry. But they're a commodity where nothing new happens anymore and sale volumes are pretty stable. But companies try to figure out how to increase their margins anyway they can, which leads to all these scammy tactics.

I _wish_ printers would die. I've hated them with a passion ever since I've had my first job as a computer "operator" where I had to feed and align perforated paper forms to monster IBM printers. The boundary between electromechanics and software is a very dirty place.

Re: Ask HN: Why is the printer industry so scammy?

#122

Post by kurupt213 »

jqpabc123 wrote: post #97
kurupt213 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who makes a quality color laser?

Canon, HP and Brother all have them. I chose a Canon for it's ability to do 2-sided duplex printing and collating in a compact design for small office use (up to 5 people). I recommend looking for "office" instead of "home". The manufacturers seem aware of the fact that business people have low tolerance for unreliable crap.

Thanks. Good point in the commercial grade search.

Re: Ask HN: Why is the printer industry so scammy?

#123

Post by massysett »

kurupt213 wrote: post #64
jqpabc123 wrote: post #12

Avoid ink jet and use laser jet instead. This solved most of the frustration for me. The upfront cost is slightly higher, the print quality is slightly decreased but the long term satisfaction is greatly enhanced. Ink jet in any form is dead in my mind.

Who makes a quality color laser?

I have a ~$400 HP with a flatbed scanner and sheet feeder, no complaints. Works well with Windows, Mac GUI apps, Mac CLI, Linux, iOS, and Chromebook. Use the generic Post Script driver for Mac CLI printing with lp, not Air Print, as the duplexer won’t work with Air Print and CLI apps (for instance I print groff PS files.) Works fine with Mac GUI apps and Air Print.

IPv6 completely locked it up. It would reboot over and over. This happened after changing my home router to one with full ipv6 support. Disabling ipv6 on the printer fixed it. It could be that subsequent firmware updates fixed this but I haven’t checked.

I use only genuine HP toner. No way I am trusting random toner from the flea market—er, Amazon.

HP Color Laser Jet MFP 281cdw

Re: Ask HN: Why is the printer industry so scammy?

#124

Post by rtorres1989 »

I wrote a piece about why office printers in particular break down so much. One thing that stuck with me when I spoke to an IT repair guy was that users often cause more damage to worn out printers by trying to fix it. https://www.ciodive.com/news/perplexing-it-questions-answere...

Re: Ask HN: Why is the printer industry so scammy?

#125

Post by CogitoCogito »

patrick451 wrote: post #114
CogitoCogito wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The brother printer (HL-L2350DW) I have auto-detects when the toner is "low" and refuses to print. It does this even though I haven't noticed any degradation in printing quality and would prefer to continue printing with the old cartridge even if it results in a worse print. I find this kind of infuriating actually. Being able to continue using a cartridge as it gets low was always one the features I loved about lase…

I've had some middling success with taking the cartridge out, shaking it back and forth, and re-inserting it. But I agree that behavior is really frustrating

I did find some vague claims on the internet saying there were ways around this, but I just don't have the energy. Tinkering with things can be fun, but I specifically bought a laser printer and specifically from Brother because I thought they cared about their customers and wouldn't do stuff like this. It's a betrayal of trust.

Re: Ask HN: Why is the printer industry so scammy?

#126

Post by nirimda »

Ekaros wrote: post #23

Printers are the most mechanically complex computer related product. Just think, fans are basically single bearing and motor. Pumps are pretty much same. Traditional spinning disk, nearly closed system with two motors. Printers have multiple times this complexity. And the products bought are bought for lowest price. Or at least reasonable price. You get what you pay for. And what is paid is often very little. Thus po…

But we don't really have the option to buy a good quality printer. We can spend more on a printer, but the printer companies don't say "here we have a cheap printer that is designed to cause you trouble so that it becomes effectively a subscription service; there we have a quality printer that will last". And if they tried, it's unlikely we could reasonably believe them because everyone else lies. Cost is no indicator of quality, the reputation brand names are not protected, business do not have pride in their products. All they want is to take more money out of you than you gain in benefit.

Re: Ask HN: Why is the printer industry so scammy?

#127

Post by dagw »

JohnFen wrote: post #120
Alex3917 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The upfront cost is slightly higher, the print quality is slightly decreased but the long term satisfaction is greatly enhanced. OK but they still stop updating the drivers after 3 years, which is the main problem. Otherwise they would last forever.

Why do driver updates matter?

My father in law had an old laser printer that he could not get to work under windows 10 since the drivers only support windows 7 and refuse to install.

Re: Ask HN: Why is the printer industry so scammy?

#128

Post by aendruk »

dwt204 wrote: post #100

A lot of useful insights that I will use the next time I need a printer. This comment is totally off topic- I have noticed the same thing about external cameras for my desktop computer. Never needed one until the pandemic forced Zoom et al on all of us. Any comments?

Center Cam is pretty good with its narrower field of view and decent color handling, essentially what a typical webcam should be. I think primarily what sets it apart is it was designed post-2020 and has to compete with the high expectations we all hold from ubiquitous cutting edge phone cameras. The incumbent webcams (even that term sounds dated) are all from an era in which sending video over the internet at all was an impressive feat.

Re: Ask HN: Why is the printer industry so scammy?

#129

Post by [deleted] »

jqpabc123 wrote: post #97
kurupt213 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who makes a quality color laser?

Canon, HP and Brother all have them. I chose a Canon for it's ability to do 2-sided duplex printing and collating in a compact design for small office use (up to 5 people). I recommend looking for "office" instead of "home". The manufacturers seem aware of the fact that business people have low tolerance for unreliable crap.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Why is the printer industry so scammy?

#130

Post by massysett »

CogitoCogito wrote: post #93
stuff4ben wrote: post #80

> In particular, there is some brand that was praised for consumer friendly practices here on HN that joined the dark side recently too; Brother iirc. What did Brother do to join the "dark side"? I and lots of other folks love our Brother laser printers. I haven't heard of them doing anything evil...

The brother printer (HL-L2350DW) I have auto-detects when the toner is "low" and refuses to print. It does this even though I haven't noticed any degradation in printing quality and would prefer to continue printing with the old cartridge even if it results in a worse print. I find this kind of infuriating actually. Being able to continue using a cartridge as it gets low was always one the features I loved about lase…

My HP laser will warn its toner is low but it will keep on printing. I keep using a toner until the pages have white streaks.
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