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Ask HN: Do you manage your family's digital safety?

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Re: Ask HN: Do you manage your family's digital safety?

#121

Post by orev »

stedaniels wrote: post #50
orev wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may be surprised to learn that removing admin rights is no longer (and never really did) protect against app installs. Many developers have figured out they can just install into the user’s profile. Only apps that truly need admin rights (that install services, etc.) would be blocked. Everything else is wide open. The admin rights restriction on app installs was almost just a convention that people followed. Now…

Note however this is only partially true for single user devices, where lack of admin rights does prevent some attacker persistence, and is not at all true for multi user devices e.g. the shared family PC.

I’m not following which part you’re saying is untrue. The number of users on the machine is irrelevant as each user can install apps into their own user profile. Maybe they won’t have access to the other users’ data, but it’s enough to gain a foothold.

Persistence is easy enough with startup shortcuts or scheduled tasks in each profile.

Also, I’m not saying these apps have some kind of hidden malware, I’m saying they are operating as designed, and usually offer features in exchange for letting them do things like upload your address book, etc.

Re: Ask HN: Do you manage your family's digital safety?

#123

Post by xony »

enobrev wrote: post #83

This post reminds me of a huge win I had, recently. I had convinced my wife (who is not of the tech world) to switch to a password manager a couple years ago, and while she didn't love it, she's now totally on board. My mother runs a fairly successful small online business and kept getting BS charges on her business cards along with other various occurrences. She and her employees were sharing a couple passwords for…

No post body was provided.

Re: Ask HN: Do you manage your family's digital safety?

#125

Post by nonesuch49 »

TruthIsHeresy wrote: post #92
nonesuch49 wrote: post #82

We recently threw out everything we thought about surveillance, privacy, liberty, and learning through experience when it comes to our kids' access to the Internet. They now have no phone. The computer has a whitelist of sites it can visit and a few ports open for some games. It only gets used with the door open. I disable the Internet completely between the hours of 10pm and 6am. I am looking into even more big brot…

This is insanity. You cannot protect children forever. What will you do if your kids go to a friend’s house and have access to devices which are not heavily restricted? What if a friend comes over with their own similar device? As a child of parents who did similar things as you are doing, I can say confidently that it did not protect me, it created a resentment towards my parents, and it increased my motivation to b…

If you read more closely, you'll see that I said "recently" as in, "due to recent events." We did exactly as you say, taught our child as well as we could with full openness and honesty about the reality. It doesn't matter. Some kids will take that to heart and some won't. I'm not willing to risk my child's well-being simply because "they didn't do what I told them to" with something as nefarious as what's found on the Internet. As another commenter said, it's the ease of access and the flattening of risk that's problematic.

We will likely release some of these restrictions as our trust in our child and their recognition of the problem sinks in over the next few weeks. I would never consider an outright ban or prohibition because I agree it does have some of the affects you mention. Instead, this is a resetting of expectations for our child around what level of risk is acceptable.

Re: Ask HN: Do you manage your family's digital safety?

#126

Post by nonesuch49 »

betwixthewires wrote: post #112
TruthIsHeresy wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is insanity. You cannot protect children forever. What will you do if your kids go to a friend’s house and have access to devices which are not heavily restricted? What if a friend comes over with their own similar device? As a child of parents who did similar things as you are doing, I can say confidently that it did not protect me, it created a resentment towards my parents, and it increased my motivation to b…

I believe this person to be trolling (I know, good faith and all that, but my spidy sense is tingling) but on this topic, I don't know how old you are but when I was a kid I didn't have 24/7 access to mutilation scat orgies on demand wherever I am. Last time I went to a porn site I didn't get asked my age, and several videos on the front page were filmed under the guise of siblings having sex. I remember being in IRC…

You got what I was saying though I could have explained myself better. Kids do not and perhaps cannot understand the risks involved.

Re: Ask HN: Do you manage your family's digital safety?

#127

Post by nonesuch49 »

stonewareslord wrote: post #91
nonesuch49 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought so too. I hoped I'd never have to be this way. It's not just stolen money from a bank account or a hacked Instagram. It could be life or death.

> It could be life or death. What does this mean? Isn't it better to teach them how to be safe so when they grow up they will be safe? Instead of teaching them nothing but to not trust you? Once your monitoring no longer exists on their devices, what do you think they'd do?

I absolutely agree that teaching them is important. But, 13 or 15 year old kids get taught stuff all the time that they completely ignore. Humans in general are bad at understanding possible risks when faced with what seems like easy short term success. Kids are an order of magnitude or two less capable of doing that.

This is a resetting for us and not a permanent state. Teaching often means letting someone fail, correcting that behavior, and then trying again. Teaching is never, "I say it and they do it."

Re: Ask HN: Do you manage your family's digital safety?

#128

Post by flemhans »

dsnr wrote: post #60
jokethrowaway wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Europe your payment will most likely fail if your name doesn't match your card's and often even if your address doesn't match the address on your card. Sad.

Also, knowing how bureaucratic Europe is, I can totally see myself having a warranty claim rejected because of a name mismatch.

No that doesn't happen

Re: Ask HN: Do you manage your family's digital safety?

#129

Post by flemhans »

jokethrowaway wrote: post #59
rsync wrote: post #37

The number one thing that we do is use an assumed name and address (and phone number) for all online interactions. If it's not a government agency, it doesn't get any real info. So, for instance, Amazon has a made-up name and our PO BOX and our "junk" number from Twilio. As I have mentioned here many, many times: This is possible because VISA/MC do not verify cardholder name. They make it seem like they do and mercha…

In Europe your payment will most likely fail if your name doesn't match your card's and often even if your address doesn't match the address on your card. Sad.

I always type something random in the cardholder field and it was never rejected. European cards and websites. The store can see what you entered in that field though through the payment gateway.

Re: Ask HN: Do you manage your family's digital safety?

#130

Post by rodolphoarruda »

snowwrestler wrote: post #103
rodolphoarruda wrote: post #97

I have a wife and 2 kids under 13. - We have a phone that never leaves home and has no SIM card. We use it for banking apps and 2FA critical services. - So our "street phones" don't have any banking apps installed, nor social media apps, 2FA nor password managers. - We have a paper notebook with secrets and 2FA recovery codes in the bookshelf sitting among many other notebooks and old dusty random stuff. - Our kid's…

I’m curious what threat model your first two bullets are intended to mitigate.

Kidnapping and extortion. In the place I live, criminals hold you under a gun and use your phone to wipe your accounts clean. Bank accounts, crypto wallets, everything. Sometimes they even take pre-approved loans on the victim's name and then transfer the money to their accounts.
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