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Ask HN: Am I the only “unlucky” software engineer?

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Re: Ask HN: Am I the only “unlucky” software engineer?

#121

Post by giantg2 »

exportedm wrote: post #107
giantg2 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not so easy to walk when I've built skills in unmarketabke tech and have to support a family with multiple medical issues.

I appreciate that you're likely struggling with self doubt and the sunk cost fallacy so you might need to suspend your disbelief for a few moments, but... forget technology, if you're a competent programmer, then you have a great deal of value to a lot of companies regardless of their technology choices. You're clouding your view of employment by applying feelings about your current situation to all employment which…

"if you're a competent programmer"

Apparently I'm not. I got a further development needed rating this year. Although I should say that will all the BS that happened this year I should be proud that I even was able to hold down a job.

I've already been looking for other jobs, applying, and even interviewing. Nothing is working out so far.

Re: Ask HN: Am I the only “unlucky” software engineer?

#122

Post by bjornlouser »

"Almost nobody seems to hire for potential these days!"

What is the average length of employment for mid to senior level developers these days? A few years? If it takes ~3 months to go from zero to competent with a new tech stack then that's ~15 weeks out of ~150 weeks -> 10%

Too simple a metric to capture the various qualities of a candidate that would compensate for the delay in significant contributions, but not completely irrational given the supply of qualified applicants.

Re: Ask HN: Am I the only “unlucky” software engineer?

#123

Post by valbaca »

Most of what you mention is exactly what the interview process should reveal: when they demonstrate what they care about, pay attention.

> where they test your memory and obedience, but not your abilities

Obedience is the only ability they care about.

> Sometimes they talk so much about fit fit fit, but they don't even bother with a personality or IQ test

If any interview process involved a personality or IQ test I would laugh in their face.

Re: Ask HN: Am I the only “unlucky” software engineer?

#124

Post by bellyfullofbac »

aeortiz wrote: post #94
bellyfullofbac wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have the same thought as grandparent commenter, and your last paragraph isn't making my perception any better. IMO, go to a career coach, or psychiatrist, and get a neutral perspective of whether they see you as having a difficult personality. I've read that most people decide on hiring on the idea of whether they'd want to have a beer with that person. Yeah it's not fair, but well, they're paying for those beers (…

This strikes a chord because I struggle with social anxiety...I wouldn't want to go out for a beer with any coworker, only with friends I've vetted over months/years. I hope I am in any other way capable of being a good engineer. Should I not be hired because of it?

No, you should not be.

/s

It's a rule of thumb, not an absolute. This part I'm not being sarcastic abour: sorry if your social anxiety problems also include not being able to get nuance.

Re: Ask HN: Am I the only “unlucky” software engineer?

#125

Post by bellyfullofbac »

nordicengineer wrote: post #98
aeortiz wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This strikes a chord because I struggle with social anxiety...I wouldn't want to go out for a beer with any coworker, only with friends I've vetted over months/years. I hope I am in any other way capable of being a good engineer. Should I not be hired because of it?

Thanks for writing this! We're all so different, socially, stage in life (kids for instance), ways of working, etc. not to mention thinking of how this applies to hiring women. "What? You don't want to grab a drink with me?" Lost for words.

Well, ignore the last bit then, but I hope you don't ignore the first part, I'm genuinely curious if you didn't like my suggestion and would use that beer thing to dismiss me as another "who doesn't get it".

If I had a physical discomfort and asked online for ideas what it could be, and someone said e.g. "it could be that you're lacking magnesium, you should confirm that with a professional.", I would do so. I already asked for advice, to dismiss people giving them would be, well what's the point of me asking?

Re: Ask HN: Am I the only “unlucky” software engineer?

#126

Post by karmab »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #27

As a hiring manager, the common theme I see in your post is a condescension toward everyone you interview with. You project an unwavering belief that you know how to run other people’s companies and hiring processes better than they do. If this is projected at all during your interview, the companies aren’t going to be eager to hire you. (And to be honest, they’d be right) For example: > Sometimes you get the job and…

Sometimes one doesn't see the problems unless one has encountered them himself and that is not to say the original poster is mistaken in his/her beliefs but perhaps their experience in management has been limited thus far.

To the original poster:

If you find yourself in a management position ever, you will understand the challenges at the management level are much different than what you would encounter in a tech-centric role.

The advice I would get the original poster is that of compassion!

Re: Ask HN: Am I the only “unlucky” software engineer?

#127

Post by plutonorm »

pseudalopex wrote: post #108
plutonorm wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can substitute the word openness for creativity in my post, it doesn't really change the argument. The words are made up anyway, they did a factor analysis over lots of questionnaire responses and then found the largest contributing factors. Then they kind of eyeball the questions and tried to come up with a word that described the kinds of questions in that cluster. Openness is prob more accurate, but creativity…

I know how the Big 5 model was developed. Creativity is more complex than just openness. Needing new experiences everywhere is novelty seeking. It's more complex than openness too. And openness distributions for software developers and everyone else are about the same as far as I know. Creative people can thrive in many companies. You're right startups tend to be good for novelty seekers.

Your condescending tone tells me that you are likely just the sort of person the OP is having trouble with. And they are everywhere in software development.

Re: Ask HN: Am I the only “unlucky” software engineer?

#128

Post by l0b0 »

Some things which have worked for me (Scandinavian working elsewhere, senior dev):

- Re. keywords, trim the CV according to the job you want. I've worked with PHP, PL/SQL, VBA and other technologies I'd rather never touch again. I simply don't mention them in the CV, and if it ever comes up in the interview I clearly say "I don't want to work with that." If they press me on it, that's a big red flag.

- Rather than simply saying "no" to a rebuild, how about looking into the pain points and improving them, step by step? If it's slow, do a bit of profiling and fix the low-hanging fruit. If it's incomprehensible, run a formatter and a linter and fix everything which you can conceivably fix, then run a complexity checker and discombobulate a couple of the biggest clusters. If it's unreliable or ossified, add tests until it's stable and refactorable.

- Shitty hiring practices can be a sign of a disorganised or dysfunctional company. I'd simply take it as a red flag and be ready to drop the opportunity if it's too bad.

- Meaningful work is out there, but it's usually not paid the best. That said, do you really need the very best paid job you can find to have a comfortable life? You're already in a well-paid segment, even with the salary stagnation. I've found lots of meaning by working in research (really badly paid, but such stimulating colleagues & cameraderie) and currently in a place where I'm working almost full time on open source software, including third party dependencies.

Re: Ask HN: Am I the only “unlucky” software engineer?

#129

Post by elric »

OJFord wrote: post #29
elric wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. IQ tests, personality tests, psychological profiles, not happening. It's a load of pseudoscientific hogwash which hiring managers use to justify their own biases.

What bias would they have that would be reliably backed up by them? ('Scandanavians are the best employees' perhaps, based on this thread..! But that aside.)

"Another INTP wouldn't fit in the team" is a great excuse for "I don't like this person". "This woman only has an IQ of 103" replaces "I don't want to hire her because she wants babies".

Hiring is hard. People are complicated. Trying to reduce them a couple of letters or a number is hogwash.

Re: Ask HN: Am I the only “unlucky” software engineer?

#130

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

aeortiz wrote: post #94
bellyfullofbac wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have the same thought as grandparent commenter, and your last paragraph isn't making my perception any better. IMO, go to a career coach, or psychiatrist, and get a neutral perspective of whether they see you as having a difficult personality. I've read that most people decide on hiring on the idea of whether they'd want to have a beer with that person. Yeah it's not fair, but well, they're paying for those beers (…

This strikes a chord because I struggle with social anxiety...I wouldn't want to go out for a beer with any coworker, only with friends I've vetted over months/years. I hope I am in any other way capable of being a good engineer. Should I not be hired because of it?

I think you're taking the statement too literally. All it means is "would I want to work with this person on a daily basis and not claw my eyes out?"
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