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Ask HN: What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles?

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Re: Ask HN: What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles?

#121

Post by jdofaz »

ajford wrote: post #117
at_a_remove wrote: post #64

I think that you can take all of the differentiators that exist for ICE vehicles (price, reliability, status ...) and then add in some new factors: 1) Range anxiety 2) Recharge concerns (plays into range anxiety) 3) Novel technology fears (will my trusted mechanic of twenty years be able to handle this or am I stuck with the dealership?) 4) "Handling" -- will this drive like my old ICE car? Apparently a major irritat…

I totally agree with 1 & 2 as being major differentiators in any EV discussion. I owned a Nissan Leaf gen1 and it was painful. It was about 2.5yo when I purchased it, and it claimed nearly 50mi range according to the range estimator (famously called the guesstimator in leaf community). Within about 6 months it fell to barely 40mi range on a good day. My wife hated to drive it due to range anxiety, and more than once…

Europe has a consistent plug but it is different than what is typical in NA (CCS type 1 vs type 2)

Re: Ask HN: What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles?

#123

Post by Geee »

Entertainment will be one differentiator. When cars are autonomous, and even now for passengers, people will want a car that has the best systems for watching movies, playing games, and passing time in general. Tesla's are leading in this segment right now. They already got many popular games ported to their system, and the new Model S/X will run games such as Witcher 3 and Cyberpunk 2077.

Re: Ask HN: What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles?

#124

Post by bdamm »

petercooper wrote: post #63
twobitshifter wrote: post #39

If someone can get full self driving and patents it, they’ll have the market. Software is where we are seeing most innovation right now. Self parking, 3D surround cameras, accident avoidance, auto lane change, etc. I think you’re correct that there will be less appeal from a technical performance perspective to buy an individual brand. All EVs have fast enough acceleration (some dangerously so.) So competition there…

All EVs have fast enough acceleration (some dangerously so.) So competition there is not going to continue. I'm less sure about that. I think it will remain a distinctive feature that people will actively choose for or against, at least. The new Mini EV from BMW (and which is replacing the i3 as BMW's 'flagship' EV) has only 0-60 in 7s which is not very interesting at all. But they're not aiming at the performance cr…

Your point is true, except that you will go electric, whether you do it for dopamine hit or not. The technology is strongly pointing to the complete and utter obsolescence of gasoline in a matter of only a few more years. Arguably gasoline is already obsolete and riding the very long tail of awareness of transition. Gasoline is still dominating in the cheapest sectors (of American auto sales, not true in China), but as cheaper electric models arrive and the used market continues to swell with good used electrics, that sector too will fall, and gasoline will be relegated to the old and the unusual.

So if you want to be beating people off the line, you better get into electric now, because the roads are filling up with 'em and quick!

Re: Ask HN: What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles?

#125

Post by elihu »

bluedays wrote: post #122

Modularity. Nobody wants to spend $3,000+ to replace a battery. Until it's possible for the average consumer to replace a battery module nobody is going to trust electric vehicles.

Well, obviously some people already trust electric vehicles that don't have batteries that the average consumer isn't meant to replace. So "nobody" is an exaggeration. But replaceable, modular batteries would be a nice improvement. Especially if a particular kind of battery fit in a wide range of vehicles and were available from multiple vendors. And if cars were designed to accept upgrade batteries with different electrical characteristics than the originals and have it just work.

Re: Ask HN: What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles?

#126

Post by DennisP »

asdff wrote: post #103

Arguably were are already there. Every car on the market gets to the speed limit quick enough and gets about the same MPG, so therefore cars are already in this nike shoe to balenciaga state, since the actual added performance functionality you get in the porsche today is useless, dangerous, and illegal except on private tracks (and maybe 1% of owners will bring their cars to one of these, far more will drive their c…

Let's not overlook Tesla's acceleration, range, and Supercharger network. Other makers will catch up eventually but for now, those factors make a lot of buyers overlook fit and finish.

Re: Ask HN: What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles?

#127

Post by screye »

gopalv wrote: post #114
screye wrote: post #91

> Electric Porsche Porsche and certain other manufacturers will always be handling kings. (even if the lower center of gravity, means that all electric cars kind of handle well) > Manufacturing consistency and quality We see Tesla struggle with this, But, Toyota and Honda have this down to a science like no other manufacturer. There is a reason the Civic/Corolla/Camry/Accord quadrilateral is impenetrable. Excellence…

> We see Tesla struggle with this, But, Toyota and Honda have this down to a science like no other manufacturer A lot of us overestimate what can be done in a year, underestimate what can be done in five and can't even guess what can be done in a decade. I've heard the exact same sentiment said about the Detroit automakers when compared against a Datsun - unquestionable dominance (or Nokia or Ericsson). Not to say Te…

Market dominance and true expertise through strongly enforced company culture is hard to counteract. I say this as someone who verkd for H0nd@ as a mechEngg and witnessed the culture on the inside.

Nokia and Detroit automaker's collapse was tied to a certain lethargy and dysfunction in these companies. The economic downturn was the metal straw that broke the camel's back.

Tesla will undoubtedly keep growing, but I find it unlikely that their margins will ever justify their stock price.

Re: Ask HN: What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles?

#128

Post by kwhitefoot »

at_a_remove wrote: post #64

I think that you can take all of the differentiators that exist for ICE vehicles (price, reliability, status ...) and then add in some new factors: 1) Range anxiety 2) Recharge concerns (plays into range anxiety) 3) Novel technology fears (will my trusted mechanic of twenty years be able to handle this or am I stuck with the dealership?) 4) "Handling" -- will this drive like my old ICE car? Apparently a major irritat…

Range anxiety regarding electric vehicles seems to be something that mostly afflicts those who do not have an EV.

I have a 2015 Model S 70D with a range of about 330 km. In the three years and 70 thousand km that I have been driving it I have had only three occasions when I was anxious about the range. Most new EVs have better range than that so most buyers of new EVs from now on should have even less reason to be concerned. And of course most EVs are bought by people who can charge them at home which means that the car is almost always fully 'fuelled' when you need it. It won't be long before 500 km is a normal range for EVs which is comparable to a lot of petrol cars in the US: https://www.energy.gov/eere/vehicles/fact-939-august-22-2016... (2016). The Hyundai Ioniq 5 is almost there.

Re: Ask HN: What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles?

#129

Post by DennisP »

turtlebits wrote: post #94
petercooper wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All EVs have fast enough acceleration (some dangerously so.) So competition there is not going to continue. I'm less sure about that. I think it will remain a distinctive feature that people will actively choose for or against, at least. The new Mini EV from BMW (and which is replacing the i3 as BMW's 'flagship' EV) has only 0-60 in 7s which is not very interesting at all. But they're not aiming at the performance cr…

My father has a 2015 i3, and it's more than fast enough off the line- my Bolt is the same way even though they are both 6+ sec 0-60. EVs have instant torque and in fact are a bit scary to me as both the i3 and Bolt have small wheels.

Some people think 6+ is "more than fast enough" and others want the thrill of 3.5 seconds. There are enough people in the second group to keep manufacturers making cars for them.

Re: Ask HN: What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles?

#130

Post by elihu »

jedberg wrote: post #100

For almost everyone out there, they don't care if it's gas or electric or how many MPG it gets. They care about the look, how it feels to drive, and what features are offered inside. If everything goes fully electric, we'll just be back into pre-2000 territory, where every car was ICE and they differentiated on handling, interior features, styling, and engine power.

That's a stereotype; it's true of some people, but not everyone. Probably not even most. In fact, I have a hard time believing there are many people out there buying cars that don't care at all whether the car they get is gas or electric.

Sure, appearance matters. Most people don't want to drive around in an ugly car. But functionality is pretty important too. Fuel economy. Safety. How many people or how much stuff fits inside. How much gas does it use per mile (if it's a gas car). How easy is it get parts. Is it expensive to maintain.

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