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Ask HN: Feasible Alternative to the MacBook Pro?

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Re: Ask HN: Feasible Alternative to the MacBook Pro?

#121

Post by LeonM »

mcv wrote: post #51

With all the bad reviews about Apple, I didn't want to replace my old 17" MacBook Pro with a new Macbook (also, they don't do 17" anymore), so I just ordered a Thinkpad X1 Extreme instead. Thinkpad has had a stellar reputation for sturdy quality since forever, and the X1 Extreme seems like a fairly good compromise between power, size, and other concerns. It's not 17" because the only 17" Thinkpads are the monstrous P…

I bought an X1E also as a replacement for my MBP, mostly for the keyboard and due to all the praise of developers about Lenovo. Mine has the same specs as yours, including the dual SSD for Linux.

Overall it is pretty good, but nowhere near the finish of an Apple laptop. The X1E has terrible coil whine, and the fan is noisy. I have Windows 10 and Linux installed, both have it's problems. Windows has all sorts of power management issues out of the box, it still won't suspend reliably when you close the lid. Linux support for the dual GPU situation is also pretty bad, and the $400 Thunderbolt dock is a hit-and-mis on both Linux and Windows.

I'm quite happy with the X1E though, the screen and keyboard are gorgeous. The ability to play some games on the GPU is also nice. But the experience is just not as polished as I had with my MBP. My MBP lasted for 6 year (professional daily use) and for some reason I don't expect the X1E to last that long (though I bought it, like you did, with the assumption it would last me at least 5 years).

If only Apple were to offer decent support and a build a new laptop for true professional use...

> According to reviews, it's quieter than my old Macbook (which was extremely noisy)

FWIW, this only happens when dust gets in the fan of a MBP, they are normally super quiet. I've written about it before on HN, if you open the bottom lid and remove the dust your MBP should be quiet again :)

Re: Ask HN: Feasible Alternative to the MacBook Pro?

#122

Post by ants_a »

andreareina wrote: post #64
odiroot wrote: post #36

I would recommend Thinkpad T-series even for the keyboard and touchpad only. It's much heavier though, but at that much more repairable and sturdier.

Unfortunately even the T-series has gone 100% on the integrated battery now, which IME is the thing most likely to need to be fixed. Aside from that, agreed.

Swapping the integrated battery is a 5 minute job, so if you are not planning on hauling around multiple batteries, it's not a major issue. I haven't really used the hot swap capability my T440s has, even though I have multiple. Maybe if they had a separate charging dock for the batteries...

Re: Ask HN: Feasible Alternative to the MacBook Pro?

#123

Post by etatoby »

mherrmann wrote: post #48

I switched from MBP to a Dell XPS 13 with Ubuntu. I compare the experience to living in a hotel vs. living at home [1]. In a hotel (=on Mac), everything is stylish and cared for, but you have very little freedom to change things. At home (=on Linux), you need to do the dishes yourself but there's no external agenda. It's simply yours. I'm very happy with the switch. Though I'm on (Debian+) Xfce now instead of Ubuntu…

I second a ThinkPad with XFCE (such as Xubuntu) as the best combination.

A few things which, although obvious in retrospect, I had to learn the hard way:

• Get a ThinkPad with physical buttons under the touchpad, if you like to track with your index finger and click with the thumb. I made the mistake of getting the kind where you push the entire touchpad, and it's very hard to use. Apple's was at least useable, this is not.

• Get a ThinkPad with a physical Ethernet port. USB dongles are finicky and unstable on Linux, and there are places / desks / offices where the WiFi is flaky.

• Choose the stable release of a well-supported OS (Ubuntu, Mint... whatever) because the beta / newest / testing version will make you lose time on bugs and freezes.

Re: Ask HN: Feasible Alternative to the MacBook Pro?

#124

Post by CareyB »

mherrmann wrote: post #48

I switched from MBP to a Dell XPS 13 with Ubuntu. I compare the experience to living in a hotel vs. living at home [1]. In a hotel (=on Mac), everything is stylish and cared for, but you have very little freedom to change things. At home (=on Linux), you need to do the dishes yourself but there's no external agenda. It's simply yours. I'm very happy with the switch. Though I'm on (Debian+) Xfce now instead of Ubuntu…

Great analogy

Re: Ask HN: Feasible Alternative to the MacBook Pro?

#125

Post by jostmey »

I'm using a Microsoft surface laptop and I love it! The 3:2 screen ratio makes my 13" screen feel like a 15" laptop without extra bulkiness (the 3:2 screen ratio adds an extra inch of height compared to the 16:9 ratio). Everything else about the laptop is so far amazing

It doesn't have a great graphics card, but I don't do much of that anyway

Re: Ask HN: Feasible Alternative to the MacBook Pro?

#126

Post by Joeri »

chillee wrote: post #52
longtom wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also moved to Windows 10 and X1 Carbon (6th Gen) after using Apple products all my life and I've never looked back. That being said, my X1 also went three times to repair. I guess people have simply unlearnt how to manufacture reliable products due to the immense complexity that is involved by now, combined with a planned obsolescence mentality. It is shitty wherever you go; it's just a bit more shitty with Apple c…

IMO, if you're buying a higher end laptop it's worth shelling out for the on site warranty/accident protection. They'll send a technician to your location (typically within the week) and replace whatever parts needed for free. So you'll have essentially 0 time without your laptop. It's been excellent (used it twice: fixed a broken keycap, and a spilled drink), and gives me a ton of peace of mind.

Lenovo lets you buy up to 5 years of onsite support for less than the cost of applecare. I am in my 4th year on my T460p. Had to use it once, a few months ago when the SSD died. I found out then that whether someone actually comes out the next business day depends on the technician assigned and the region. In my case they sent me a replacement drive (arrived next business day) and expected me to install it myself. Not a problem, T series thinkpads are designed to be easy to get into, but still slightly disappointing. Still, I got the cost of the onsite back with just that one incident, so I was satisfied with the service.

I am very satisfied with that thinkpad. Excellent linux support, good performance, quiet under sustained load, best laptop keyboard I’ve ever used, and extremely durable.

Re: Ask HN: Feasible Alternative to the MacBook Pro?

#127

Post by mcv »

LeonM wrote: post #121
mcv wrote: post #51

With all the bad reviews about Apple, I didn't want to replace my old 17" MacBook Pro with a new Macbook (also, they don't do 17" anymore), so I just ordered a Thinkpad X1 Extreme instead. Thinkpad has had a stellar reputation for sturdy quality since forever, and the X1 Extreme seems like a fairly good compromise between power, size, and other concerns. It's not 17" because the only 17" Thinkpads are the monstrous P…

I bought an X1E also as a replacement for my MBP, mostly for the keyboard and due to all the praise of developers about Lenovo. Mine has the same specs as yours, including the dual SSD for Linux. Overall it is pretty good, but nowhere near the finish of an Apple laptop. The X1E has terrible coil whine, and the fan is noisy. I have Windows 10 and Linux installed, both have it's problems. Windows has all sorts of power…

I've replaced the fans on that old MBP and that didn't help, so I think it's really just that noisy.

I was hoping the X1E would be quieter, but your experience is clearly different. My impression from reviews is that coil whine seems to be a fairly random issue that can affect any model, but usually doesn't. I wonder if Lenovo should fix it under the warranty. Seems to me there's no good excuse for coil whine.

I've had the same problem with a laptop not going to sleep when you close the lid with a Dell laptop from work running Windows 10. I fixed it by having it hibernate instead, which does work reliably, but wakes up much slower.

All of these things sound like they should have been solved problems by now. Why are laptops still plagued by these things?

Re: Ask HN: Feasible Alternative to the MacBook Pro?

#128

Post by SmirkingRevenge »

hardwaresofton wrote: post #85

System76[0] makes some nice laptops (I have an Oryx Pro and i like it a lot), and there's the Lenovo X1 Extreme[1]. [0]: https://system76.com/laptops [1]: https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpad-x/X1-...

How is the keyboard on your system76? I've been leaning towards System76 for my next laptop, but its hard to pull the trigger without testing the keyboard. I really need cushier and longer travel keys these days or I get really bad muscle fatigue in my arms and wrists, while working on a laptop keyboard.

My 2014 MBP causes me issues only after an hour or two. And their newer keyboards... well, I'm just not even going to go there. The old ibm/lenovo thinkpad keyboards (before chick-lets) were the best.

Lenovo is an option too, but I'd rather support a Linux oriented company with Linux-first laptops (I also find it a hard pill to swallow to ever buy a Lenovo again, after all the spyware shenanigans).

Re: Ask HN: Feasible Alternative to the MacBook Pro?

#129

Post by gigatexal »

mherrmann wrote: post #48

I switched from MBP to a Dell XPS 13 with Ubuntu. I compare the experience to living in a hotel vs. living at home [1]. In a hotel (=on Mac), everything is stylish and cared for, but you have very little freedom to change things. At home (=on Linux), you need to do the dishes yourself but there's no external agenda. It's simply yours. I'm very happy with the switch. Though I'm on (Debian+) Xfce now instead of Ubuntu…

Give me the hotel then because I want to spend my time doing work not having to do laundry or cut the lawn.
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