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Ask HN: Resources for introverted devs to learn workplace politics?

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Re: Ask HN: Resources for introverted devs to learn workplace politics?

#121

Post by sjg007 »

1. Find a therapist who specializes in adult autism and cbt. 2. One thing that will help is to develop your small talk. Look people in the eye, ask how they are and the default option, “any and for the weekend?” If it’s wednesday or later. If it’s monday or tuesday and the first time you interact, ask how was your weekend? Be prepared to give answers yourself that are more then 1 word and allow some basic questioning and responses. That’s all you need to do to get started. You can literally script it out to start and over time it will get easier. The trick about being an effective communicator is actually to just actively listen.

There are some self help books on CBT too that will help. Find some written by academics from reputable schools.

Re: Ask HN: Resources for introverted devs to learn workplace politics?

#122

Post by codebolt »

jimmy1 wrote: post #114

Disclaimer: This is my own personal advice. It is different from what has been commented so far, but hope it might offer a different perspective or angle. Don't believe your labels, even one's you give yourself. Why do you think you are introverted? Is it because you took some Carl Jungean-esque test like the Myers Briggs and it said you were? Is it because your parents and teachers always said you were "shy"? Is it…

Co-signing this advice. I was basically in the same shoes as the OP, being the quiet office weirdo for my first few years, usually getting very tense in meetings and so on. These days I'm effortlessly starting discussions, speaking my mind openly in meetings, etc, and have never had it better professionally or socially, at work or otherwise. I won't try to distill my personal transformation into a step-by-step recipe for others to repeat, but at least know that with persistent effort, change is possible.

Re: Ask HN: Resources for introverted devs to learn workplace politics?

#123

Post by Scown »

zengid wrote: post #17

1. Politely greet the people you pass by in the halls. 2. Practice small talk: -Ask others about their lives and thoughts and work. -Listen. Try to have at least one such interaction per day. This will be really hard at first, but it gets easier. Politics is mostly leveraging relationships. You grow them with care and a little attention over a long time. Here's a secret. Most people are uncomfortable talking to other…

Also - remember at least one thing from each of those interactions that you can use again.

E.g. when you ask Sarah what she's up to on the weekend, remember she said "canoeing" so you can ask the following week how it went.

I find that helps so much when you're feeling confident enough to move past the "hi how are you?" stage.

Re: Ask HN: Resources for introverted devs to learn workplace politics?

#124

Post by rgrieselhuber »

navait wrote: post #90
rgrieselhuber wrote: post #26

The best advice (though likely to be unpopular) is learn the basics of evolutionary psychology and body language. There is a lot more to learn after that but if you don't know those, there is too much you won't be able to see.

Isn't this like learning assembly to program python?

It’s more like learning the alphabet if you want to read.

Re: Ask HN: Resources for introverted devs to learn workplace politics?

#125

Post by _zskd »

naeemtee wrote: post #106
_zskd wrote: post #72

I've responded to this sort if inquiry before, so forgive the copy-pasta: >> You sound like you have anxiety problems. What have you done to address your anti-social tendencies? Are you going to a therapist? Do you expect a fairy to fly into your house and magic them away? What job do you think exists where you don't need these skills? >> Having a therapist does not mean you are crazy, and you don't NEED to be crazy…

> "How to Win Friends and Influence People" is a must-read I'm sorry - this advice, and most of your comment, is bad advice. I struggled with social anxiety for 10 or 15 years before I "cured" myself, and advice like this is what buried me. Reading books and going to a therapist can supplement your efforts, but if that's your main approach you're going to waste years - and when you talk, you're going to sound like a…

> I'm sorry - this advice, and most of your comment, is bad advice.

I am diagnosed bipolar and ADHD, but meh I don't really care that much about labels.

What helped me become stable and happy is going to a therapist. What helped me succeed in the workplace is reading books and applying what I learned.

> Burying your head in books and overanalyzing your social interactions isn't going to solve your social anxiety. Go play soccer.

Not everyone is able to play soccer, or naturally athletic. And honestly it comes off as very "pull yourself up by your bootstraps, bro." So fine. You hate therapists and cured yourself. Congratulations. I'm just saying what works for me.

HOWEVER, I strongly agree with your assertion that "introverts" tend to be stuck in their ways. Branching out and trying new activities, joining clubs, and being physically fit are extremely important to a person's mental health. Having more interests other than video games, anime, and internet culture goes a LONG WAY in having better social interactions with people.

Re: Ask HN: Resources for introverted devs to learn workplace politics?

#126

Post by sbergot »

pc86 wrote: post #95
hyperpape wrote: post #73

I'm surprised no one has made this distinction, but you're really talking about three kinds of communication: 1. Functional communication about the job you're doing 2. Social conversations 3. Office politics There is overlap: #2 will help grease the wheels for #1 and #3, while #1 becomes #3 when a situation is dysfunctional/you rise in the corporate hierarchy. Despite the overlap, these are fundamentally different th…

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your point, but there is nothing dysfunctional about office politics. Politics is how you get something done with a large group of people who have different individual goals, that's it. It's a necessity for achieving something greater than any of those people could achieve on their own.

My interpretation is that a junior should not expected to be good at office politics.

Re: Ask HN: Resources for introverted devs to learn workplace politics?

#127

Post by aero142 »

mediocrejoker wrote: post #119
naeemtee wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "How to Win Friends and Influence People" is a must-read I'm sorry - this advice, and most of your comment, is bad advice. I struggled with social anxiety for 10 or 15 years before I "cured" myself, and advice like this is what buried me. Reading books and going to a therapist can supplement your efforts, but if that's your main approach you're going to waste years - and when you talk, you're going to sound like a…

Maybe you could write more than three words about your experience and what positive suggestions you have for OP (ie. not "here's what bad advice" and instead "here is some good advice") Was soccer really the thing that helped you?

I agree with your criticism, but I'm going to add that I think the parent is correct. The thing that helped me the most was joining rec sports, meeting people through that, and socializing a lot. This took years, but I eventually got better at interacting with people. I think the best plan is to find a hobby that involves other people and do it a lot. Invest in learning skills like listening to people, telling stories well, playing party games and joking around with people. The biggest thing it that it takes years. Managing social anxiety is easier when you are better at socializing. That way you get anxious but then realize you know what to do and can push through from repetition. Just like public speaking and stage fright.

Re: Ask HN: Resources for introverted devs to learn workplace politics?

#129

Post by oerb »

jimmy1 wrote: post #114

Disclaimer: This is my own personal advice. It is different from what has been commented so far, but hope it might offer a different perspective or angle. Don't believe your labels, even one's you give yourself. Why do you think you are introverted? Is it because you took some Carl Jungean-esque test like the Myers Briggs and it said you were? Is it because your parents and teachers always said you were "shy"? Is it…

this advice is good and bad at once in my live experience.

Doing is the only way to transform.

But not knowing who you are could get you on the wrong path. Introversion for example could be a learned habit but mostly lies in your genes.

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