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Ask HN: How do you manage your manager?

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Re: Ask HN: How do you manage your manager?

#121

Post by eropple »

doglover7869 wrote: post #102
confiscate wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

agree. Especially with #3 "understand what boss wants" From the way OP phrased the question, it sounded like the OP felt the manager "owed" the OP. As in, OP feels going to the conference is a must, "a given", a "constitutional right", and that the manager "wronged" him by not letting him go. It's a very childish way of viewing the world. As in, I deserve to go to Disneyland. My mom won't let me, so I will now get a…

If the OP really wants to give a talk is because they are seeking for some kind of recognition or ego booster. This sounds very self centered and narcisistic.

There is often a positive career boost from presenting at a conference, which I guess you could so weirdly and pejoratively spin as "recognition" or even "self-centered". But not looking out for oneself is stupid and managers who don't look out for their employees' career development are bad managers.

Being weird and shitty and making claims of "narcissism" should come with evidence, or at least an argument.

Re: Ask HN: How do you manage your manager?

#122

Post by knz »

hagurganus wrote: post #108
dagw wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That he can count on you to do what needs to be done. You will go out of your way for her. If you've ever said "this isn't my job" then you will have only an adversarial relationship. True to the extent that it is actually related to your job in a larger sense and doing so won't adversely affect your ability to do your 'real' job. Many managers will just keeping adding more and more responsibilities to their 'best' w…

> That being said there are better ways of phrasing it than "this isn't my job". Saying something along the lines of "if I do that I won't have time to finish X by next Tuesday as I promised. It might be worth checking with Dave and his team if they have someone who can work on it. Otherwise I'll be happy to do it, as long as you're OK with pushing X back a week". Your whole comment was spot-on, but this part in part…

> "Otherwise I'll be happy to do it, as long as you're OK with pushing X back a week"

While I agree with your sentiment, this only works in a workplace where management is willing to adjust deadlines and expectations in these situations. I've seen and experienced (bad) managers with a mindset of "Just get it done" or worse. It's usually a great sign that it's time to move on.

Re: Ask HN: How do you manage your manager?

#123

Post by myWindoonn »

greggarious wrote: post #14
confiscate wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

agree. Especially with #3 "understand what boss wants" From the way OP phrased the question, it sounded like the OP felt the manager "owed" the OP. As in, OP feels going to the conference is a must, "a given", a "constitutional right", and that the manager "wronged" him by not letting him go. It's a very childish way of viewing the world. As in, I deserve to go to Disneyland. My mom won't let me, so I will now get a…

> OP feels going to the conference is a must, "a given", a "constitutional right", and that the manager "wronged" him by not letting him go. It's a very childish way of viewing the world. OP's employer does not own them - they have a right to a private life. While they certainly could not want OP identifying themselves as an agent of their employer when giving a talk, OP is entitled to use their free time / vacation…

I use vacation days to attend conferences. It doesn't feel ethical for me to attend a conference during a workday.

Re: Ask HN: How do you manage your manager?

#124

Post by scardine »

I can say what not to do: never do something to undermine or expose your boss no matter how incompetent he is.

Personally I let my boss take all credit for my work (not really, just make everything I can in order to get him promoted). When he gets promoted he is likely to carry me up with him (if not I'm working for the wrong boss). It paid out several times.

Re: Ask HN: How do you manage your manager?

#125

Post by powertorque »

gbajson wrote: post #117
cpheimbach wrote: post #44

1 loyalty Too often I experience employees or co-worker to think they have better ideas or should be opposing to their manager. Managing happens often under uncertainty. Making it for your boss easier to know you are there to take on ups and downs will almost often grant loyalty in return. On this job and future opportunities as well.

After 15 years IT I see that managing bad bosses makes sense. Bad bosses, with their bad ideas, are usually fired or resign at some stage, the good ones stay.

I heard “me me me” from the OP. There is no context or direction that it is a bad manager. What if OP is a bad employee and a drain on company resources? It is a one-sided talk so far with no context on the other party.

Re: Ask HN: How do you manage your manager?

#126

Post by kjeetgill »

scardine wrote: post #124

I can say what not to do: never do something to undermine or expose your boss no matter how incompetent he is. Personally I let my boss take all credit for my work (not really, just make everything I can in order to get him promoted). When he gets promoted he is likely to carry me up with him (if not I'm working for the wrong boss). It paid out several times.

To add slightly, the "worse" a manager is the more important this is. If someone wants all the credit and has the authority, you can only either help or face some degree of consequence.

The more competent and confident leadership is the more they'll work to make sure you get pushed into the spotlight for your work (sometimes against your will if you're shy or unsure). A good corporate culture will naturally make them look good when you look good.

Disclaimer: I've had the distinct pleasure of only working _with_ but never really _for_ a difficult of manager.

Re: Ask HN: How do you manage your manager?

#127

Post by [deleted] »

oldsklgdfth wrote: post #114
slededit wrote: post #4

If you focus on this at the point where you aren't getting what you want its too late. You need to build a relationship of trust before you ask for an exception or special request (in the eye of the manager not you). Your manager should know the following: - That if there is a problem you will always come to him/her first not try and work around him - That he can count on you to do what needs to be done. You will go…

This is gold and should be treated as such. Following these steps can make your work life very easy. However, if you really feel like you are right and your boss is wrong then I have some machiavellian advice for the workplace. 1. No one will give you anything because you just asked nicely. 2. Everyone is out for themselves, PERIOD. If you want more money, a new chair, better tools you have to create some pressure fo…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: How do you manage your manager?

#128

Post by gtt »

bitshepherd wrote: post #92
gtt wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Many managers will just keeping adding more and more responsibilities to their 'best' workers until they either start saying "no", quit or burn out, often without any malice or ill intent. I consider such people total failure as managers and try to avoid.

When I'm in the employee seat, I try to avoid managers that use blanket statements of people. The 'best' workers, where everyone -- including their manager -- goes when they need the hard questions answered, will usually quietly exit. They prefer not to cause a big scene, knowing their value. Value usually has a big catalyst in this, often appearing sudden and unexpected, exit. Some of these 'total failures' will go…

>People quit people, not jobs.

To be fair, I've seen organizations so dysfunctional that even good managers could not protect their people from ambient shittiness. Below certain threshold there is no salvation for organization.

Re: Ask HN: How do you manage your manager?

#129

Post by antisocial »

OliverJones wrote: post #103

Everybody has a time constant. That's the time it takes for them to accept a new or challenging idea. Figure out your manager's time constant. If you say, "I'm giving a public talk" (or "We should move from Azure to AWS", or "We need a better defect tracking system" or whatever), it's human nature to resist. It's new. It's change. Entrepreneurs often have long time constants. It's necessary for them to be stubborn, a…

           Now, some managers will come to you after their time constant elapses and say "I have an idea!" and recite your idea. You have to accept this.
LOL

Re: Ask HN: How do you manage your manager?

#130

Post by jchallis »

psyc wrote: post #83

I don’t know how to, because the usual tool - words - are off the table. Every time we speak, he monologues at length, going into the kind of detail parents use with small children. He paves over every attempt to interject or ask for clarification I actually need. And then at the very end, he listens to the first few words of my thoughts, then interrupts that he’s late to something and runs off. Every time.

Life's too short to work for someone that you do not respect and does not respect you. You have limited ability to change your manager's behavior, but a lot to change that manager.
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